Kahler questions

no not mine, just another TB picture from way back in my photobucket so it is pretty old.

Shoot al ... did you get your trem yet?

Should be here tomorrow or the day after.

I'm not sure if it just always does take forever, or if the anticipation is that great that it seems like forever ... I mean, its not even for me and I'm anxious.

Its cuz I don't have any work on my bench right now.

 

I actually took some bass lessons today. Yay!

The worst part is knowing I'm gonna have to wait for the installation when I do get it!
Ah well, its worth it.

I've been thinking about going back to lessons myself, never to late to start learning and there is still a few weaknesses I need to develop in my playing.

shudda bought my never used 2400

The stuff I'm studying is jazz players and in particular, the ways that flea chooses to progress thru a scale. I've looked at flea's stuff for years and played it thinking, "this is rediculous! Why did he do it that way!?!?"

Truth is that flea was a trumpet player first. I think it has to do with that and I wanna figure out the theory and apply it to my style.

The Kahler came today, looks great! Gonna call up my guitar guy tomorrow!
One thing I'm worried about though is that it came with only two springs when I've read alot about you guys needing 3, think this will be a problem?
Maybe he'll have something lying around in case it will be.
Anyway, can't wait to get this thing installed!

You got it off ebay from that guy bezdez or something from arkansas, right?

That's who I got that blem from, and the replacement one he sent me to make good on the deal only had two springs. He will argue with you that that is the way it comes and all the boxes go thru his shop sealed.

Contact him immediately and lay into him. Thats BS. I don't know what this guy is doing. Ill never buy fom him again. The few bucks you save just isn't worth the frustration.

Contact John at whammi world for springs.

I'm sorry ... this guy. Pitch perfect music. Give him a bad review ... I did.

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=330956305233

It actually didn't come with any routing instructions either.
I mean I'm sure I can dig up something online but that feels like something it should come with regardless.

my 2400 came with a nice book, template, and screws...lol  
the bitch is it is not compatible with a lot of smaller body basses cause the saddles face the other way so you need it farther back on the body to work.

It has started!
Brought my bass and Kahler to my guitar guy, he has the instructions and what not he needs to do it.
He is gonna try mounting it on top before counter sinking it, he thinks it might not need the counter sinking but we'll see.

Atomic Al wrote:

He is gonna try mounting it on top before counter sinking it, he thinks it might not need the counter sinking but we'll see.

That is correct. Why do it if you don't have to? He'll know as soon as he tries to drop the rollers to try and get the action lower.. if you can't get it low enuff without the strings buzzing on the assembly in front of it then its best to countersink.

I agree with what MadMike said, Al. It's no biggie to see if your Kahler will work without countersinking, and an easy enough fix if it does need it.

The spring count is another matter entirely. It is an easy retro to add a third spring to a two-spring unit, and I would suggest that you do so. When Wammi J first contacted me several years ago after Kahler went back online, I told him that the units absolutely needed three springs. Gary Kahler listened, and now they have three again. Now, it still might be possible to get two springs to work, but it would probably take an awful lot of torquing down on the tension screw to get the unit to balance properly.

I'm kind of leaning towards what MadMike said about the guy who sold you this unit.  Shame on him! Two-spring units should not be on the market!!!! 

Man....keep us posted, Bro! If it doesn't work, you can add a third spring with just a little extra effort. And we can help you if need be. So don't fret! We can fix this!

No biggie on the springs, my guy has spare ones so if needed, he has one.
He says that since I'm tuned down two should be good.
Ahh gonna be a painful week waiting to get that bass back.

About the springs again, I noticed it had the screws for the spring in the center but the spring just wasn't on it, is this how they ship?
If so did he open up my box out of spite and remove the center spring and other paper work?
What kind of inhumane monster what do such a thing.

i'm not sure what your asking (pics?) but yes ... there should be a spring there.

I would also bet that if you go on his ebay store, I'd bet that he has kahler springs for sale ... how about that!  

as far as paperwork, all I'v ever gotten is a cardboard template that really only tells you where the relief pocket needs to be in regards to the base (that needs to be placed properly for intonation) and advertisment for other kahler products.

If your craftsman has another spring then your good. Otherwize, get the replacement from WammiWorld.

He says that since I'm down tuned he thinks I won't need the other spring, what do you guys think?

i tune to DGCF as the norm for years. I never knew it was suppose to make a difference.
my gold one had 3, i took one out. my black one has 2 and holds the cam level just fine.

i guess if you torture it like eric, the long arm and 3 is better...

I play DADG drop D. A little too tight for 2 springs. I use 3 springs but I put em in a vice and unwind and stretch em out a little.

I also detune Al, and I find that two springs don't quite do it for me. But depending on how much you torture your trem, two might work fine for you.

But it also sounds like your Kahler has the option of adding that third spring, and the previous owner had simply removed it. This is actually great news, because it means that you won't have to drill and tap the thing to add that third spring again if you wished to do so.  

Strange thing is that it has no previous owner!
I bought it new it just doesn't have the center spring in.
Do they come stock with three springs?
Just confused why it would come with two out of three on it.

i put a couple pics in there and so did some new guy bvb

https://basstremfanatics.forumotion.net/t1013-kahler-bass-tremolo-2410#12722

Sorry to tell you this Al. My daddy taught me, to figure out why people do what they do, follow the dollar. I think its another example of "trem on a bass? That's stupid!" so people will do what they can to make an extra buck ... altho that's stupid too. Its just a spring and now, a major inconvenience to you.

Kahler autorized dealer my butt.

Not really a major inconvenience since my tech has one, just wondering if its better to be safe than sorry and tell him to put it on.
I really have no clue how hard I'm going to use the bar though.

I never used 2 springs but I wonder if the decrease in overall tension would decrease its range of ability to stay in tune. Iddid definately be harder to get it in tune.

Atomic Al wrote:

I bought it new it just doesn't have the center spring in.
Do they come stock with three springs?
Just confused why it would come with two out of three on it.

The new units should have three. The very first run of Kahlers back in 1981 came with only two, and the first runs of the re-issued Kahlers had only two until I told them they needed three. The thing is that, with three springs all set to go, you can always remove one if need be. But if you start with only two, it's a bit harder to expand to three.

Well I FINALLY have my bass back with the Kahler installed!
I had to go out of town for a week before I could get it, went up to Houston, BC to help my dad move.
First thing I did when I got off the plane was call up my guitar guy to go pick up the bass!
He did a great job installing it, no counter sinking! Gotta love those Yamahas.
He took all my measurements and string heights before starting the job so it plays the exact same way it did before.
One of the first things I noticed when I got home and plugged it into my practice rig was that it sounds different but different in a way that I actually prefer.
I'm not sure how to describe it, its like the high end attack comes out at a different frequency now.
One thing you guys (especially MadMike) will notice is that the Kahler isn't hanging off the back of the body at all yet its perfectly intonated.
My only guess is that the body one your Attitude is different then mine. It does have some slight issues staying in tune, will drift after a few mins  of using the trem so I might ask my buddy who works at GraphTech to pick me up a nut.
Thank you MadMike and Eric for helping me getting this Kahler on this bass!
When I learn how to use it properly, I'II try and get a video up with it.

Niccccce.

Coutersink is a pia but necessary at times.

Looks great and I'm glad the playability is good.

Yes, the tone does change. I like it too. Better sustain in the high end? Yeah manybe, but def better.

Looking forward to vids.

Freakin' AWESOME, Al! Looking forward to those videos!  

wow!!! this looks just pretty awesome!!!! i´m courious for a vid raping your yamaha!!
i hope my own bass is ready and kahlerized this weekend.

Man am I that horrible of a player that when I pick up my bass I'm raping it?!
Poor bass.... its been though a lot then.

 

Have a little funny story I think you guys will appreciate.
Was getting ready this morning to do some recording with one of my bands.
I've been using my black Yamaha Attitude LTD 3 purely for this recording since putting on new strings for it so it goes back into the case when I'm done recording to keep the strings fresh on it.
Its been awhile since our last recording session so this morning while I'm going over the songs I was recording today on my Attitude with the Kahler, I realize its probably a good idea to take the LTD 3 out of the case, tune it up and let it sit out side of the bag for a bit, so I put down my other Attitude, pick up the LTD 3 and tune it up and noddle on it just a little bit to make sure every things fine with it. While I was nodding, I found myself reaching for a tremolo bar that wasn't there!  
Shows you how much I've been using the Kahler on my other Attitude!
I love that Kahler so far, it feels like its been the missing link in my playing.

 

A man after my own heart! I meant, after all of OUR hearts! Bravo, Al!  

I've caught myself doing that to my washburn. No trem there ... doh!

Just broke a string.
I can't even remember the last time I did that.
I had those strings on since Sept 25 when I got the bass back with the Kahler so I was over due for a change anyway but still was kinda shocking when it happened.
I was messing around with the Micro Pog learning abit of the lead guitar from Wormhole Wizards by Satriani, went to do a bend and it broke.
When my strings start sounding dead I put them in the dishwasher to get some life back into them, I wonder if that had anything to do with it breaking.
I noticed that they don't sound as fresh with the Kahler anymore though, so I doubt I'II do that with future strings on this bass again.
Just gonna assume that Kahler and dish washing strings is a no go from now on. Makes sense when you think about it.

when you wash strings like that you ruin them for strechability, ya they will "brighten up" a bunch since all your finger-funk is gone, but it makes the core not as pliable and --- snap ---.

I turned Eric on to my favorite 5dollar a pack strings ALICE brand ( chinese rotosounds )
3 gauges:

light 40-100
medium 45-105
heavy 50-110.

at 5bucks a pack you could change them every 2 weeks if you really wanted to.
sometimes the ebay seller ( silverspringmusic) dont have any 4's left so I buy 5 or 6string packs for a dollar more and throw the extra string in the garbage.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370464778443?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

I would give them a shot if he had them in my gauge.
Since I'm down a step I use 110-45.

Thanks anyway though.

Chinese rotosounds .... that sounds like the exact opposite of the reason I buy rotos.

$5 a pack tho ....... hmm.

I break strings. Its not age. Abuse and / or some mechanical issue is the usual culprit. When you put new strings on, check your saddles and nut (esp where it broke). Make sure everything is smooth and rollers are rolling. Fine steel wool will get rid of grooves, nicks, ridges or dings. Eric uses #2 pencil graphite in the nut grooves to keep the strings from binding. I use that, and / or orbital grease.

And new rotos every 4 months.

I haven't broken a string in over 3 years.

I'm just going to assume it was putting them in dishwasher that did it in, I wasn't using the Kahler when it broke.