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 Rig Quest....so far....

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EricHaven
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PostSubject: Rig Quest....so far....   Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:33 pm

As of today, I only have the Behringer V-Amp Pro preamp still to come. Everything else has arrived, and I have had a chance to test almost all of it. And while it's OK for the most part, I've run into a few hiccups.

Let me start with the good stuff.

The QSC GX3. All I can say is....WOW! What a mutha of an amplifier! Ultra light-weight, crystal-clear, and LOUD! I will gladly give a ringing endorsement for this amp to anyone who asks.

The Seismic Audio Cabinets. OK....I have not unpacked the 2x15 yet, but I did try the 1x15. First of all, I was stone-cold astounded at how light this cabinet was. So, fearing the worst, I was a little hesitant to hear it after seeing how lightweight it was. Au contrare! This cabinet is pure carnage! Even though it's for my distortion channel, I tried running it clean as an experiment. I could not believe the bottom end this thing has!

The Ibanez Tuner. Extremely accurate, and built like a tank. The display is much easier to read than the one on the Boss Tuner is, and it is one solid pedal.

The Pearson 6-space Rack. Always the best. Aaron Pearson is a friend of mine, and he has been making awesome rack cases for several years now. His pricing is extremely competitive, and he ships his orders out almost right away. Check out his gear at: http://www.pearsoncases.com/

OK....now for the hiccups.

The POG. Easily the very best pitch-shifter I have ever played with. This thing tracks flawlessly, and truly is polyphonic. BUT....it does not quite produce the effect I was after. Sure, it does a very believable organ tone, but I cannot get a guitar emulation out it for nothing. SO....I have decided to let it go. It's listed on eBay for BIN of $225. But if anyone here wants it, I'll let it go for $200 even, shipping included.

The DOD G7. The ad stated that the unit was in "excellent working condition". Well darned if the unit I received didn't have a horrendous hum. I sent a message to the guy who wrote me back to say that he "personally tested the unit prior to shipping, and it worked fine", and that I "might need to file a claim with UPS". He asked me to call him if that didn't pan out, which it didn't, since he didn't ship with insurance, and there are no signs of shipment trauma anyways. So unless the guy decides to be a gentleman, I'm out $150 with a G7 that I can't use.

I still have the Behringer V-Amp Pro to look forward to, and I am fully expecting that to be great. In fact, if the Behringer's distortion will emulate the G7's Grunge patch at all, I might just use that for my distortion channel, and go with some other preamp for my clean channel.

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madmike

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PostSubject: Re: Rig Quest....so far....   Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:13 am

glad you dig the sisemic audio cabinets. i was suprised with the weight as well and may replace my 2X10 hartke cab with eminences to a SA 2X10 cab on the issue of weight alone. i've been verry happy with their products.

i kinda ... but dont really understand. you can amplify with any amplifier, as long as it has the wattage and can handle the load and if you use a preamp (you chose that berringer ... nice!). with the frequencies bass produces, i didnt think an amp like that QSC GX3 would work as well as an amp designed specificly as a bass amplifier. i understand that you run in stereo, and this amp is built for that ... but what are the limitations of using an amp like that for bass? if there are no limitations ... why do we use bass amplifiers specificly ... instead of these? why shud i use it (because the price shure is right and this thing looks like it cranks!)?

built into my processor ... but i've been very impressed with the lead guitar simulator in my boss. i dont know if they package that effect any other way.
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PostSubject: Re: Rig Quest....so far....   Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:40 am

madmike wrote:
i kinda ... but dont really understand. you can amplify with any amplifier, as long as it has the wattage and can handle the load and if you use a preamp (you chose that berringer ... nice!). with the frequencies bass produces, i didnt think an amp like that QSC GX3 would work as well as an amp designed specificly as a bass amplifier. i understand that you run in stereo, and this amp is built for that ... but what are the limitations of using an amp like that for bass? if there are no limitations ... why do we use bass amplifiers specificly ... instead of these? why shud i use it (because the price shure is right and this thing looks like it cranks!)?

Good question. Wink There's no reason why you can't. Do it. It's a cheaper, more versatile, and probably louder way to amplify your bass.

Amimbari uses units like that for his power section, while he uses an effects processor as his preamp, I believe.
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PostSubject: Re: Rig Quest....so far....   Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:16 am

madmike wrote:
i didnt think an amp like that QSC GX3 would work as well as an amp designed specificly as a bass amplifier. i understand that you run in stereo, and this amp is built for that ... but what are the limitations of using an amp like that for bass? if there are no limitations ... why do we use bass amplifiers specificly ...

you are so right... ANY AMP can be used to amplify.....

if you have good external effect units that allow your "tone" to be what you want....any power amp will work.
we all are familiar with the SVT/MESA/CARVIN/PEAVEY/FENDER...etc amp sound, and to emulate that "sound" with external effects is very hard, as you would know if you had a line6 p.o.s. trying to use the amp selector knob ( 100% p.o.s )
but if the sound you like "comes from your effects, as many do including myself then yep, any high quality amp can work.

here's an example:

take your bass plug it into the power amp direct...no effects, nothing..if it is dead quiet great...ok, then you plug in your effect chain, if the noise is deadly, then you know instantly you should find some other brand name effect box.

99% of all CRAP sound comes from cheap effects you don't need with a nice name brand "BASS" amp.
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EricHaven
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PostSubject: Re: Rig Quest....so far....   Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:58 pm

To go along with what Mike and Martin said MadMike, the rule of thumb is that any power amp will work fine for bass. A power amp's only purpose is to provide the big wattage. It is up to the tone shaping of the preamp to determine the frequency response of the overall system. As far as whether or not the QSC GX3 is or is not suited for a bass system, it does post a frequency response of 20hz - 20khz. So it can and does reproduce the entire spectrum perfectly well.

So what makes a bass amp a "bass amp"? Again, it's the tonality of the preamp. For example, you could take a preamp, and run it into the power amp section of a Marshall guitar amp, and it will work just fine on a bass. I know, because I've done it.

There's this old wives tale about not being able to plug a bass into a guitar amp since it will "fry/blow-up/kill your amp". This is utter nonsense. Sure, there are bass amps that come with limiters to handle some of the more dynamic peaks of the signal, but not every bass amp has a limiter in it, and these are more to smooth out your playing, instead of protecting your amp. The simple fact is that, from a tonal and strength position, an amp is an amp is an amp, and it could care less what you plug into it. It's not as if your guitar amp starts screaming whenever you come at it with your bass. "Oh no! Not a bass! I'm a guitar amp! I can't handle a bass!"

Think of it this way. They do not make "bass" tubes/capacitors/resistors/inductors/switches/potentiometers/etc.

Everyone that has ever said to me that you can't plug a bass into a guitar amp has never experienced amp meltdown for themselves. It was always a case of "well, there was this guy who told me that he heard from some other guy about this dude who knew someone who blah, blah, blah...."

Now, it is also true that many bass amps are specifically ranged within the bass range, but most EQ's can overcome this.

And the final test came when I powered up the amp, and it produced pure thunder. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Rig Quest....so far....   Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:56 pm

EricHaven wrote:
To go along with what Mike and Martin said MadMike, the rule of thumb is that any power amp will work fine for bass. A power amp's only purpose is to provide the big wattage. It is up to the tone shaping of the preamp to determine the frequency response of the overall system. As far as whether or not the QSC GX3 is or is not suited for a bass system, it does post a frequency response of 20hz - 20khz. So it can and does reproduce the entire spectrum perfectly well.

So what makes a bass amp a "bass amp"? Again, it's the tonality of the preamp. For example, you could take a preamp, and run it into the power amp section of a Marshall guitar amp, and it will work just fine on a bass. I know, because I've done it.

There's this old wives tale about not being able to plug a bass into a guitar amp since it will "fry/blow-up/kill your amp". This is utter nonsense. Sure, there are bass amps that come with limiters to handle some of the more dynamic peaks of the signal, but not every bass has a limiter in it, and these are more to smooth out your playing, instead of protecting your amp. The simple fact is that, from a tonal and strength position, an amp is an amp is an amp, and it could care less what you plug into it. It's not as if your guitar amp starts screaming whenever you come at it with your bass. "Oh no! Not a bass! I'm a guitar amp! I can't handle a bass!"

Think of it this way. They do not make "bass" tubes/capacitors/resistors/inductors/switches, potentiometers/etc.

Everyone that has ever said to me that you can't plug a bass into a guitar amp has never experienced amp meltdown for themselves. It was always a case of "well, there was this guy who told me that he heard from some other guy about this dude who knew someone who blah, blah, blah...."

Now, it is also true that many bass amps are specifically ranged within the bass range, but most EQ's can overcome this.

And the final test came when I powered up the amp, and it produced pure thunder. Wink

Right on!
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PostSubject: Re: Rig Quest....so far....   Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:04 am

just as a side note, I used a Mesa Triple-Rec guitar amp for my bass thru 2 2x15 Carvin cabs for years..never hurt anything up to the day I sold it to buy my first Mesa400 before the 400+ replaced it.

once that 400+ was gone, SS amps took over, and I never looked back.
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PostSubject: Re: Rig Quest....so far....   Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:22 am

amimbari wrote:
just as a side note, I used a Mesa Triple-Rec guitar amp for my bass thru 2 2x15 Carvin cabs for years..never hurt anything up to the day I sold it to buy my first Mesa400 before the 400+ replaced it.

once that 400+ was gone, SS amps took over, and I never looked back.

I know that a Dual Rectifier makes a great amp for guitar or bass.

Man, I'd give my 400+ for a 400 any day. Why'd you make the switch?
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PostSubject: Re: Rig Quest....so far....   Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:08 pm

from the 400 to the +?

the dual-rec was bought as a trade for the 400, then that was sold and I was still in the "I have to have tubes for power" kick.....
the 400+ was newer and the price was right.

that was sold when I was tired of my rack weighing 100lbs ( 45 just from that amp )
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PostSubject: Re: Rig Quest....so far....   Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:16 pm

The 400+ has SO many tubes...it's ridiculous. I want something simple...
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PostSubject: Re: Rig Quest....so far....   Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:58 am

i totally agree with what you say about people taking about "thats a guitar head ... you cant plug a bass into that!" ... why not?!?!

i think the thing that is feared is speaker dammage ... and this is comming from the people that call a combo an amp (or some other ameture type nonsence like that).

marshall dual rec into a 4X10 with eminence delta 10B's ... would probably really crank. again, like you said eric, must handlt the correct range of frequncies.

cool. just never even thought about it that way ... this has opened a whole new range of sound possibilities for me. personally ... without dropping $1000 for an amp, i've never really been too happy with what bass amp manufacturers have offered. perhaps the solution lies here.
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PostSubject: Re: Rig Quest....so far....   Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:44 pm

Ah yes! Good point, MadMike! I had completely overlooked the speaker issue!

Generally speaking, you can put a bass into just about any speaker you wish. But it depends on which speaker you are using that will determine the end results. Obviously, if you pump a 100 watt bass single into a 3" 10-watt speaker, it will sound like garbage, and it will blow. Now theoretically, if that same speaker was somehow able to handle 200 watts, it might last a bit longer, only the low frequencies of the bass will eventually kill it. But even size isn't always the determining factor. I once saw a bass cabinet that consisted of something like 20 5" drivers. I cannot remember who made it, but apparently it worked great.

I remember back when guitarists would say that if you ran a bass through a 4x12, the speakers would blow. Sure they would, if the amp wasn't rated for the power of the amp. After all, we all know perfectly well that 4x10 cabinets are a great choice, so a 4x12 should work fine.

But yes. If you ran your bass into a little Peavey Backstage guitar practice amp at full volume, something would eventually give out.

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PostSubject: Re: Rig Quest....so far....   Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:54 am

i've seen those itty bitty brigade of speakers in a huge cabinet dealies ... played one actually. it did sound great. i dont remember who made it either. wouldnt want it. i can see the perspective of having more high end clarity and moving a lot of air ... but what nonsence. are all those speakers really necessary? my high end is crystal thru 2 10" and a driver. i just think of the nightmare of replacing one (or a few) of those speakers when they go .... where am i gonna find replacements for them???
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PostSubject: Re: Rig Quest....so far....   Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:43 pm

madmike wrote:
i just think of the nightmare of replacing one (or a few) of those speakers when they go .... where am i gonna find replacements for them???

Oh, you already know the answer to that question, MadMike. The company would be more than happy to sell you their custom replacement drivers....at a substantial cost, I'm sure.

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PostSubject: Re: Rig Quest....so far....   Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:08 pm

unless they go the hartke / samson customer service route .......

"GO BUY A NEW ONE"
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PostSubject: Re: Rig Quest....so far....   Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:20 am

sometimes I have to wonder about speaker brands inside cabinets...let me tell the story:

I blew up 2 of the 4 12" celestions in my cab ( no compressor on the old Plush1060 amp I used back then ) and killed them...I was broke and a show was scheduled so I went to our local car-audio distributor and bought 4 pyramid speakers for replacements. 150 total for all 4.

put them in the cabinet, sealed it back up and used that cabinet for 3 years and sold it to a guy who said "it had the black widow speaker sound", and bought it for 50.00 more than I was asking in the paper ( YES the newspaper classifieds -- remember those days? )

my point is, IMHO anything can be used for anything as long as the components match the amps wattage/ohms.
These guys who say they get a certain sound out of a certain speaker must be using an oscilloscope to measure freq response.
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PostSubject: Re: Rig Quest....so far....   Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:51 am

amimbari wrote:
sometimes I have to wonder about speaker brands inside cabinets...let me tell the story:

I blew up 2 of the 4 12" celestions in my cab ( no compressor on the old Plush1060 amp I used back then ) and killed them...I was broke and a show was scheduled so I went to our local car-audio distributor and bought 4 pyramid speakers for replacements. 150 total for all 4.

put them in the cabinet, sealed it back up and used that cabinet for 3 years and sold it to a guy who said "it had the black widow speaker sound", and bought it for 50.00 more than I was asking in the paper ( YES the newspaper classifieds -- remember those days? )

my point is, IMHO anything can be used for anything as long as the components match the amps wattage/ohms.
These guys who say they get a certain sound out of a certain speaker must be using an oscilloscope to measure freq response.

Oh yeah, they're the people who actually know what's going on and can design their own cabinets anyway. Cool
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PostSubject: Re: Rig Quest....so far....   Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:13 pm

Actually, there are a number of car speaker manufacturers that make some pretty tough speakers. I've seen some 10's with massive magnet structures, and some unreal power ratings.

Come to think of it, I did once have a pair of MTX speakers that were originally for car audio bass boxes, and they kicked serious arse. I don't remember which particular model they were, only that they were tough, cheap, and sounded great. I put them into my old Acoustic 2x15 cabinet. This was around 1989 or so.

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PostSubject: Re: Rig Quest....so far....   Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:39 pm

i had a 150W 2X12 practice combo that just sounded too fake ... not warm enuff ... cheap amp in it and not the right speaker for the enclosure.

i dropped a cobra 12" subwoofer from wal-mart for $25 in it and it sounded awesome!

it was in my car when it got stolen ... boo.
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PostSubject: Re: Rig Quest....so far....   Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:15 pm

Heh...I love it when cheap stuff blows expensive stuff (or anything that's supposed to be better) out of the water.

That sucks you had your car stolen!
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PostSubject: Re: Rig Quest....so far....   Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:06 pm

it was just a combo practice amp i aquired somwhere.

it sucks that they stole and stripped my ford! they even stole the seats out of it!
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PostSubject: Re: Rig Quest....so far....   Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:50 pm

madmike wrote:
it sucks that they stole and stripped my ford! they even stole the seats out of it!

Jesus, that's insane! I'm sorry about that.
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