My new X2N-7

I owe a huge thank you to Martin for selling me his X2N-7. I spent the early afternoon installing it in my SX, and all I can say is....WOW!!!! This thing is pure dynamite! The clarity and richness of the notes, along with the now increased responsiveness is unreal! Harmonics literally pour off the notes, and the overall tonal fidelity is exactly what I had hoped it would be! I've only had the chance to try it running through Linda's V-Tone GMX210, but I am going to fully test-drive it at full volume during band rehearsal tomorrow at my guitarists studio. I'll post pictures in the next couple of days, since I am having a hard time getting a decent picture with the flash, and I hope to get some better shots of it outside when the sun is out.

The mod was actually pretty easy to do. I simply had to carve out the pocket for the P pickup, and I took my keyhole saw to the pickguard. I then layered black electrical tape under the pickguard to cover the new gouging up. I actually did a pretty decent job, and I even managed to clean-up the original carvings a bit.

The funny thing is that now my Model J pickup for my low/clean channel sounds not nearly so powerful when compared to the X2N-7, but that's no big deal since I want more smoke from the X2N-7 anyways.

Again, THANK YOU CHOWDERBOOTS!

Good news dude.

Cool! I'm gald it got to you in time for you to put it to good use!

Switching between that pickup and anything else, the X2N will always seem so loud. It really struck me as the kind of pickup that wouldn't necessarily be used by metal bassists. It would be great for a two fingers plucking by the bridge kinda style of playing because it's so clear and so sensitive and all those harmonics drip right off. It would be great for anything, if you can keep it from pushing your preamp into distortion.

Chowderboots wrote:

It would be great for anything, if you can keep it from pushing your preamp into distortion.

Oh, you know me, Martin. That's precisely what I'm after!

EricHaven wrote:

Chowderboots wrote:

It would be great for anything, if you can keep it from pushing your preamp into distortion.

Oh, you know me, Martin. That's precisely what I'm after!

Mhmm....the X2N-7 will give you crunch and sizzle. That much power right from the bass took me off guard. I've never had a pickup that dirty before.

It really has been everything I could want, and it makes my old standard Model P's sound tame in comparison.

At one point, I had it running through my gear totally clean last night, and it started to feedback with no crunch at all. Whoop!

I know. The Model Ps really roar, but it's a different kind of roar from an X2N.

They sound just fantastic in single coil mode too, but I don't think thats what you're after, Eric.

Darkstrike wrote:

They sound just fantastic in single coil mode too, but I don't think thats what you're after, Eric.

Agreed! When I had the X2N in the neck position on my BTB, I loved using the coil tap mode. It made it sound just like a P bass. I was surprised at how much it sounded like the DiMarzio single coil oomph that I had grown to love.

Darkstrike wrote:

They sound just fantastic in single coil mode too, but I don't think thats what you're after, Eric.

You know me too well, Bill.

Actually, I also experimented with running the X2N-7 output in clean mode, and it was amazing! I might have to somehow fit in two of these pickups in the same area of the bass!

EricHaven wrote:

Actually, I also experimented with running the X2N-7 output in clean mode, and it was amazing! I might have to somehow fit in two of these pickups in the same area of the bass!

What do you mean by clean mode? Maybe you could put one where the P pickup normally is and the other one where the woofer is on the Billy Sheehan Yamaha? If you put pickup rings on them, it might look really tidy. That might not work, though, considering how expansive P pickup routes are. And, if it works out to put one in the middle position, the pole pieces might line up with where the P pickup's pole pieces would normally be and it would sound that much more like a P pickup. If you find that you also want a more traditional P bass sound from the middle position, then you can wire the middle pickup up to a coil tap switch and bashta. Just an idea...

That sounds like a bass I'd want to own! There's something about having a pickup at that 5" mark (on a 34" scale bass) from the bridge that sounds so ballsy and tight. To be able to switch between humbucking to single coil with the active coil 5" from the bridge might yield some awesome sounds.

EricHaven wrote:

Darkstrike wrote:

They sound just fantastic in single coil mode too, but I don't think thats what you're after, Eric.

You know me too well, Bill.

Actually, I also experimented with running the X2N-7 output in clean mode, and it was amazing! I might have to somehow fit in two of these pickups in the same area of the bass!

FOUR X2N-7's.


You now know you have to do it.










More smoke!

But that means that he'd have to doube the size of his rig...another QSC stereo power amp, two more Behringer pres, another 2x15 and another 1x15, AT LEAST! Not to mention the fatty bundle of cables he'd be lugging around. His umbilical cord would double in size as well.

Chowderboots wrote:

But that means that he'd have to doube the size of his rig...another QSC stereo power amp, two more Behringer pres, another 2x15 and another 1x15, AT LEAST! Not to mention the fatty bundle of cables he'd be lugging around. His umbilical cord would double in size as well.

More smoke.

Darkstrike wrote:

More smoke.

It's all in the hot-rod exhaust pipes.

Chowderboots wrote:

Darkstrike wrote:

More smoke.

It's all in the hot-rod exhaust pipes.

Exactly!

And in the world of bass, the X2N-7 are the biggest, most polished, grinded and bored hot-rod, hell raisin' exausts you can get!


Who wouldn't want four....


More smoke.

More smoke indeed.

YIKES!!!!

Now that's a lot of smoke!

Bill, what I meant was that much of the tonality of a pickup is determined by, among other things, where on the bass it sits. Like, the closer you move a pickup to the bridge, the more nasally and snappy it will sound. And the closer you move it towards the neck, the lower and deeper it will sound. I have found that my absolute favorite tones, whether clean or distorted, come from a pickup in the standard P position. But since I can't have two pickups in the exact same spot, I have to compromise. But I am curious to see what results I would get if I were to have two X2N-7's next to one another right at the P pickup area.

And by "clean mode", I meant that I took the X2N-7 and ran it without distortion just to see how well it would perform totally clean. This is because this pickup is meant for my distortion signal, and it's my Model J that I normally use for my clean signal.

EricHaven wrote:

YIKES!!!!

Now that's a lot of smoke!

Bill, what I meant was that much of the tonality of a pickup is determined by, among other things, where on the bass it sits. Like, the closer you move a pickup to the bridge, the more nasally and snappy it will sound. And the closer you move it towards the neck, the lower and deeper it will sound. I have found that my absolute favorite tones, whether clean or distorted, come from a pickup in the standard P position. But since I can't have two pickups in the exact same spot, I have to compromise. But I am curious to see what results I would get if I were to have two X2N-7's next to one another right at the P pickup area.

And by "clean mode", I meant that I took the X2N-7 and ran it without distortion just to see how well it would perform totally clean. This is because this pickup is meant for my distortion signal, and it's my Model J that I normally use for my clean signal.

So on your SX, did you put the X2N where the P would normally be?

I did! And I will post pictures soon.

EricHaven wrote:

I have found that my absolute favorite tones, whether clean or distorted, come from a pickup in the standard P position. But since I can't have two pickups in the exact same spot, I have to compromise. But I am curious to see what results I would get if I were to have two X2N-7's next to one another right at the P pickup area.

Eh, why not put the one pickup at the P spot, and stereo split it to both rigs?

You could split it, before leaving the bass, and put a volume on each split, if you needed that control within hands reach, actually being able to turn down one signal, or the other, at will.

That way, you get your fave spot, and alla that tone, in the one pickup/position that you prefer.

Darkstrike wrote:

EricHaven wrote:

I have found that my absolute favorite tones, whether clean or distorted, come from a pickup in the standard P position. But since I can't have two pickups in the exact same spot, I have to compromise. But I am curious to see what results I would get if I were to have two X2N-7's next to one another right at the P pickup area.

Eh, why not put the one pickup at the P spot, and stereo split it to both rigs?

You could split it, before leaving the bass, and put a volume on each split, if you needed that control within hands reach, actually being able to turn down one signal, or the other, at will.

That way, you get your fave spot, and alla that tone, in the one pickup/position that you prefer.

That sounds cool, but I'm not sure that I follow you. Do you mean to wire each coil of the pickup to its own volume pot? Or to take the humbucker wired in series and split that signal to two different pots?

Chowderboots wrote:

Darkstrike wrote:

EricHaven wrote:

I have found that my absolute favorite tones, whether clean or distorted, come from a pickup in the standard P position. But since I can't have two pickups in the exact same spot, I have to compromise. But I am curious to see what results I would get if I were to have two X2N-7's next to one another right at the P pickup area.

Eh, why not put the one pickup at the P spot, and stereo split it to both rigs?

You could split it, before leaving the bass, and put a volume on each split, if you needed that control within hands reach, actually being able to turn down one signal, or the other, at will.

That way, you get your fave spot, and alla that tone, in the one pickup/position that you prefer.

That sounds cool, but I'm not sure that I follow you. Do you mean to wire each coil of the pickup to its own volume pot? Or to take the humbucker wired in series and split that signal to two different pots?

Oh, sorry, should have been more clear, split the series wired pickup, into two seperate volumes, with independant outputs.

On the outside, and for all intensive purposes, it will be the exact same as his basses are currently rigged, except, both signals are coming from the P position, which he said he prefers for each channel, win/win, get the best sound he can, and only needs the one X2N.

Darkstrike wrote:

Oh, sorry, should have been more clear, split the series wired pickup, into two seperate volumes, with independant outputs.

On the outside, and for all intensive purposes, it will be the exact same as his basses are currently rigged, except, both signals are coming from the P position, which he said he prefers for each channel, win/win, get the best sound he can, and only needs the one X2N.

No problemo. I just wanted to make sure we were on the same page.

Since the signal is being split, won't you lose a little bit of output from each channel?

Chowderboots wrote:

Darkstrike wrote:

Oh, sorry, should have been more clear, split the series wired pickup, into two seperate volumes, with independant outputs.

On the outside, and for all intensive purposes, it will be the exact same as his basses are currently rigged, except, both signals are coming from the P position, which he said he prefers for each channel, win/win, get the best sound he can, and only needs the one X2N.

No problemo. I just wanted to make sure we were on the same page.

Since the signal is being split, won't you lose a little bit of output from each channel?

I wouldn't expect so, its sending the same signal to both outputs, and if it did, it would be nothing that the amps gain couldn't counter.

That's not a bad idea Bill, only that I want the full output of the pickup devoted to the signal. If I divide the pickup's output in two, that would cut the gain response going to each side in half. And I'm not sure if any amount of preamping would compensate for the gain loss. Besides that, I have tried splitting pickups like this before, and I always ended up losing harmonic response pretty drastically.

I'm thinking that if I were to install two X2N7's right next to each other, with their positioning both at the P area, I could still get close to the same results tone wise. The one closer to the neck would be my low/clean channel, and the one closer to the bridge would be for my distortion channel.

EricHaven wrote:

That's not a bad idea Bill, only that I want the full output of the pickup devoted to the signal. If I divide the pickup's output in two, that would cut the gain response going to each side in half. And I'm not sure if any amount of preamping would compensate for the gain loss. Besides that, I have tried splitting pickups like this before, and I always ended up losing harmonic response pretty drastically.

I'm thinking that if I were to install two X2N7's right next to each other, with their positioning both at the P area, I could still get close to the same results tone wise. The one closer to the neck would be my low/clean channel, and the one closer to the bridge would be for my distortion channel.

Thats odd, there should be no gain or harmonic loss.

You're sending the same signal, just to two jacks, maybe an outboard splitter?

Hmm.............

EricHaven wrote:

That's not a bad idea Bill, only that I want the full output of the pickup devoted to the signal. If I divide the pickup's output in two, that would cut the gain response going to each side in half. And I'm not sure if any amount of preamping would compensate for the gain loss. Besides that, I have tried splitting pickups like this before, and I always ended up losing harmonic response pretty drastically.

I'm thinking that if I were to install two X2N7's right next to each other, with their positioning both at the P area, I could still get close to the same results tone wise. The one closer to the neck would be my low/clean channel, and the one closer to the bridge would be for my distortion channel.

You can easily position two humbuckers so that one coil of each pickup lines up with where the P pickup's pole pieces would normally be. That sound sound incredible.

Darkstrike wrote:

Thats odd, there should be no gain or harmonic loss.

You're sending the same signal, just to two jacks, maybe an outboard splitter?

Hmm.............

Let's say that a pickup has a rated output of 100mv. You hook up that pickup to two jacks, and run the signal into two different amplifiers. Each amp only receives half of the signal, or, 50 mv. Now, yes, you can increase that signal by using a preamp BUT what you are increasing is still only what amounts to half of the original signal.

all this talk about louder and I have a question.

I thought you ran it VL/VR 1 pickup per channel into your chain?
so you can use the J blend for harmonics and such.
so you now have 1 new pup, and it's separate channel output to your stuff is 3x louder/more gain?

maybe I interpret it as when I added a emgSelect to replace the OEM - tone changed and channel got louder

Let me see if I can clarify, Mike.

Each pickup circuit in my bass is wired completely isolated from the other one. The J is wired to its own volume control and output jack, and the X2N-7 is wired to its own volume control and output jack. So I have two pickups, two volume controls, and two output jacks on my bass. They are completely separate signal paths, and they never cross one another, nor are they blended or mixed together in any way, or at any time in the signal chain.

I run two cords from the bass to my amps. The cords are lashed together using cable ties.

The output from my J is fed into my Behringer V-Amp Pro Bass preamp, and then into one side of my QSC power amp. This signal is run totally clean into my 2x15 cabinet for my low/clean channel.

The output from my X2N-7 is fed into my Behringer V-Amp Guitar preamp, and then into the remaining side of my QSC power amp. The preamp is run with distortion on all the time, and this is fed into my 1x15 cabinet.

This concept was totally taken from Billy Sheehan's concept of using distortion on bass. The advantage here is that I can run a totally screaming distortion signal alongside a totally clean signal. This allows me to have the distortion tone, feedback, and harmonic content I like without cutting into the clean low end.

I do not do this for more volume. I do this because my playing is centered around running a high-gain distorted signal, and this is the best way of achieving this without sacrificing the low end.

So why not use a so-called bass distortion pedal? Or why not split the signal from one pickup into both amps. Simple. Because I've done countless experiments with both, only to find that something is always lost. Bass distortion pedals do produce a good tone, but since you are dividing the output from the pickup along two paths, you lose gain. Feedback is difficult to coax out of the amp, and harmonics do not easily leap out. The same is true when dividing the output from one pickup into two amps.

Running two separate pickups along two different signal paths allows me to utilize the full output and gain of each pickup without taking a loss at any time.

man I was one word off in my question now that I re-read it, and you tossed out a paragraph and still didnt answer the question.

about your answer... ya I knew all that since I've been around here for a while

i said:
I thought you ran it VL/VR 1 pickup per channel into your chain?

when I meant "chains" --I knew you had 2 channels/2 amps, so the question was:
you took out whatever and you put that in, and now that channel is 3x louder cause the pickup is better, just like I saw when I tossed the emg in mine.

a simple "yes it is" would have sufficed

Well, you know how I like to be short with my answers.

Sorry Mike. I misunderstood your original question. Yes, I replaced the Model P with the X2N-7, so now that channel is louder, and has more power.

I also didn't quite understand what you meant by VL/VR. Please to explain?

I think Mike means that you have the pickups wired to their own individual volume pots (i.e. volume left/volume right)?

Ah! That makes sense. Thank you, Martin!

I guess I don't really see it as left volume/right volume. More like channel 1/channel 2. Hmmm....actually....not even that. I just know that the volume closest to the bridge is for my distortion channel, and the other one is my clean signal. I've been doing it this way for so many years that I don't really think about it anymore.

ya that's what I meant left/right..

V1/V2 would have made more sense

Glad we could clear that up.

So where are our pictures, Eric?

Oh....OK.









I know, it's not pretty, but ask me if I give a rats arse. Rock and roll ain't meant to be pretty anyways.

And when I get my new Yamaha bass, I will bring it in to have all of my mods done by a professional. But for now, my SX is a dream to play, and I'm happy with it.

EricHaven wrote:

I know, it's not pretty, but ask me if I give a rats arse. Rock and roll ain't meant to be pretty anyways.

And when I get my new Yamaha bass, I will bring it in to have all of my mods done by a professional. But for now, my SX is a dream to play, and I'm happy with it.

A big **** yeah and amen to that!

Wow...it looks like the saddles on the Kahler are spaced pretty far apart and you still have gobs of room on the outside of your E and G strings. Does the SX have a particularly wide fingerboard?

Honestly Martin, the only reason I spaced the saddles that far apart is because that's how they were set on the original stock bridge.

The neck is pretty much the same as a stock P neck is, since SX basses spec out almost exactly the same as Fenders do.

EricHaven wrote:

Honestly Martin, the only reason I spaced the saddles that far apart is because that's how they were set on the original stock bridge.

The neck is pretty much the same as a stock P neck is, since SX basses spec out almost exactly the same as Fenders do.

Mhmm. It just looks like a beefy neck.

The thing about SXs that I like is the headstock...or at least the type that's on your bass. I think it looks pretty cool.

yep, I believe ugly basses and guitars have a substantial place in the business just like expensive, pretty ones.

Sorry guys. This thread went down when I couldn't sign on. I'm looking at X2N's on my current project. I posted another thread.

reading this thread has me with more questions.

And, what would those questions be, MadMike?

X2n .... is the x2n7 necessary to cover the string span?

What is the difference in width between an x2n7 and an x2n f-spaced? What is that ... f-spaced?

Covering guitar humbuckers in those cheeze metal covers makes me ill. I hate how it changes the tone on PAFs. These X2N's are gonna get mahogany wood covers. How would you suspect that would effect the tone or output? From what everyone sez this pup is so hot, removing some tone or output with a cover would be insignificant, right?

one? Two? Positions (bridge, P or MM spot, or neck)? Matched with another "utility" standard pup in the neck pos? Would 2 X2N's just be Waaaaay too much? If you match with something not so hot ... what would you choose? Will power in the neck and x2n in the p spot? ... nasty. Or shud the neck pup be the x2n?

I'm wondering if I did 2, neck and bridge, I can run both hot with a pan and swith to coil tap, so now switched I would basically have a dual single coil bucking jazz circuit .... or is it just not even in the same league tapped?

I don't think there would be any reason to run these with a pre or even a power eq. They'll just clip at the preamp and ... $50 preamps, that can't sound good. Passive circuit with 500k pots and a .001uF orange drop sound feasable?

X2n .... is the x2n7 necessary to cover the string span?

IMHO, yes. John Gallagher used a regular X2N, but it barely spanned the strings. A X2N-7 is perfect. And if you wanted to throw a guitar humbucker in a fiver, then you’d need an 8-string pickup, although this would mean something other than an X2N, since they don’t come in an 8-string version IIRC. For a sixer? Something REALLY whacked out and custom, I reckon!

What is the difference in width between an x2n7 and an x2n f-spaced? What is that ... f-spaced?

OK….this assumes I have my information correct, so here goes. An F-spaced pickup refers to one that employs slightly wider pole pieces to better pickup each string. For example, you might use a standard pickup on a Les Paul, but you would want to go to an F-spaced if you were to replace the standard bridge with a Floyd Rose because of slightly wider  string spacing. However, this is irrelevant in the case of the X2N, since the DiMarzio website addresses this very issue which “does not apply in the case of the X2N”, in other words, there is no such thing as an F-spaced X2N. I mean, this makes perfect sense, since the “pole pieces” are actually solid bars that run the width of the X2N. So I would still run with an X2N-7 regardless.

Covering guitar humbuckers in those cheeze metal covers makes me ill. I hate how it changes the tone on PAFs. These X2N's are gonna get mahogany wood covers. How would you suspect that would affect the tone or output? From what everyone sez this pup is so hot, removing some tone or output with a cover would be insignificant, right?

Um….can’t say for certain, since I have only used either plastic rings, or just bolted straight to the body when I used X2N’s, thus, I have never used a “covered” pickup. Not really the same thing, but my Twin basses both use DiMarzio D-Activators for my dirt channel, and Andy created custom rings out of aluminum, so that’s as close as I’ve come. My guess would be that, if the pickup is hot enough, it won’t make a noticeable difference. But having mahogany covers would look gorgeous!

one? Two? Positions (bridge, P or MM spot, or neck)? Matched with another "utility" standard pup in the neck pos? Would 2 X2N's just be Waaaaay too much? If you match with something not so hot ... what would you choose? Will power in the neck and x2n in the p spot? ... nasty. Or shud the neck pup be the x2n?

All of this really depends on preference. What sort of sound are you after? Hot? Clean? Separate? Parallel? Series? Personally, I hate using the nasally sound of any bridge bass pickup soloed, and my ears prefer the blending of the bridge and neck. But this won’t work for what I do, and as you know, since I run two individual outputs. But if I didn’t do stereo? Hmmm….I guess I would still run what I do now, only not individually? Wow….Honestly, I’m not sure what the right answer would be. But I would think that you would not want an X2N in the neck, unless paired with another X2N.

I'm wondering if I did 2, neck and bridge, I can run both hot with a pan and swith to coil tap, so now switched I would basically have a dual single coil bucking jazz circuit .... or is it just not even in the same league tapped?

I’ve never run one tapped, so I have no clue. Might be an interesting experiment, though! And what the hey! Let’s say that you do this, and leave it as an option on the bass, even if you don’t use it all that much. If you have the room for the switches and such, that’s not a terrible thing.

I don't think there would be any reason to run these with a pre or even a power eq. They'll just clip at the preamp and ... $50 preamps, that can't sound good. Passive circuit with 500k pots and a .001uF orange drop sound feasable?

I completely agree on all counts here. Even a decent pre will probably start to clip with these things. Yep. Run with the passive setup.

I got a response from ... a tech I guess .... from dimarzio. Cool!

And I quote .........

"1)      I have attached 2 diagrams with the dimensions and polepiece widths of the X2N and X2N-7. This should allow you to determine which model will be best.

2)      I don’t think the X2N sounds anything like a Jazz Bass pickup in any mode. There’s no way to know in advance how well you will like the sound in humbucking series, parallel or split-coil modes. It’s entirely a matter of personal taste. The pickups can be wired to cancel hum when they are both tapped & on together.

3)      It probably makes the most sense to go for neck & bridge positions, if it makes sense at all. The magnetic field on this pickup is very strong, and you need to keep the neck pickup fairly far from the strings, to avoid intonation & buzzing problems. For that reason, you might want to consider a lower-output pickup in the neck position.

4)      We don’t make metal covers for the X2N. Wood covers will have no effect on pickup performance.

5)      500K all around or 500K volume/1Meg tone should be good. Cutting a lot of highs can make for a muddy sound, and we prefer a smaller cap like .033 or .022mFd.

 

DiMarzio Inc."

 

Thanks eric.

I don't want to post the pic because it's dimarzio ' s property ... but the hot part of the magnet from left to right is just under 2.5" wide on the x2n7.

and good, the pup is only .75" tall.

I agree with everything eric has said, and the dimarzio tech too. Now I'm just feeling like I need to experiment.

I want to try the bridge and neck positions and coil tap for something resembling a jazz single coil set up, even tho the tech said the x2n tapped sounds nothing like a jazz on a bass. I am concerned the neck pup will be too much magnetic field for the least resisted pulling them out of intonation and too muddy in a true neck spot. I'll move it more towards a p type spot.

I don't think matched with another pup is the way to go. I don't like any one pickup tone except maybe the MM, and I don't think that's right. Maybe with another system with a master switch like up is the x2n7 with a coil tap option in the p spot and down is two single coil jazz config.

or I was wondering if I just want a one, x2n7 bass. Maybe do a rude mustang bass in the future.

I think I'm gonna go with the neck / bridge with the pups nudged to the middle with a both buckets coil tap option. 500k V, 500k pan, 1Meg tone and I'll mess around with caps.