availability

So I started shopping for a kahler 7410 for my current project. My shopping experience didn't go far.

I usually find someone who has em on amazon or ebay.

all the listings say, "product no longer available".

Even wammi world doesn't have em.

I knew there was something strange about all the people calling themselves "autorized kahler dealers". Authorized by who? Not me. I think all that is required to be authorized is to have a kahler for sale. Anyone "authorized" here? I need a cosmo black 7410.

so the only place I found em was on the kahler website. Has kahler revoked all vendors product availability and gone to selling trems off their website exclusively?

Cuz they are really expensive thru kahler. Who has em?

I noticed this a month or so ago, I often surf ebay for Kahler bass and noticed that the guy I was buying my Kahlers from didn't have anymore up. I think the seller was arkansasmusicworks. These days he just has the 5 string trems for sale. Not sure if you guys noticed but the trem on my fretless isn't the 2400 I was asking about at the time of my build, its a 7410 I took off my red Attitude.
Was planning to replace the trem on it shortly after I finished the fretless but looks like this won't happen anytime soon.

Based on our previous conversation, I'm sure you aren't interested but I figured I'd throw this out there anyway, if you are interested in a three spring 2400, I'd sell you mine for $100.

I turned arkansasmuaicworks into kahler. He was selling seconds as NIB and claiming to be an "authorized kahler dealer". Interesting how kahler a knowledges no such title. He sold me this .....

bent base



Failed casting



Only 2 springs.



when I bought this I bought 2 and the other was fine. I began discussions (and not much because there was no customer service) with kahler about how if this guy is an "authorized kahler dealer" that he would make good on the deal and make an exchange. He would not, untill I contacted kahler, sent him pictures and outed him here and everywhere else on the internet. Kahler said they never heard of him, that that 7410 was a blem and should have never left their factory.

finally, after it becoming a big deal, I kept the trem because he offered a spring and a $50 refund. I told him I would do that, but I prefer he just be a bit more of an honest businessman ... then he just ignored me because I'm sure he had enough of madmike.

and I think it's stuff like this as to why kahler did something about it. I think they tightened down the vault (no more backdoor blems or favors for friends) and discontinued supplying vendors.

I just can't find a black 7410 for under $300 anymore. I was scoring new ones off Amazon and ebay for $190.

Alexander wrote:

I noticed this a month or so ago, I often surf ebay for Kahler bass and noticed that the guy I was buying my Kahlers from didn't have anymore up. I think the seller was arkansasmusicworks. These days he just has the 5 string trems for sale. Not sure if you guys noticed but the trem on my fretless isn't the 2400 I was asking about at the time of my build, its a 7410 I took off my red Attitude.
Was planning to replace the trem on it shortly after I finished the fretless but looks like this won't happen anytime soon.

Based on our previous conversation, I'm sure you aren't interested but I figured I'd throw this out there anyway, if you are interested in a three spring 2400, I'd sell you mine for $100.

and Thanx for the offer. The 24xx models are Def better quality and I been wanting to get one, but my current project's body was cut to fit specs for a xx10 rear saddle.

we have discussed aftermarket machining to flip that axle and make a xx00 a xx10 rear saddle. Just takes a drill press and a tap. Maybe with limited supply and price increase this may be a necessity.

lemme shop some more and talk to kahler again. If I can't get what I need I might hafta make that work.

My apologies. I just threw numbers out there. The first numbers I saw were more, so I was bent. They are still more.

from the kahler website ....

2410r-w4 is $379.

7410 is $269.

direct from kahler.

That is still a significant price increase.

if they weren't blems or knockoffs and they weren't buying 100's of trems at a time (because that's just a bad business venture), how were these people selling 7410's for under $200?

The Kahlers I got from him only came with 2 springs aswell. my guitar guy has the guitar springs so I'm using 2 bass springs and one guitar in the center.
Still really amazed how well the fretless stays in tune. Other than the missing spring my trems from arkansasmusicworks have been fine. No blems or anything I can notice.

Damn those prices are crazy, hopefully someone else pops up with them soon.

heres one on ebay Mike

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Kahler-Bass-Vibrato-Chrome-/271831881695?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f4a7157df&autorefresh=true

Thanks Mike.

DiMarzio X2N's $80 - $90 each.

elephant ear tuners $50 - $90.

Pots, knobs, other bircka-bracka $80.

Cosmo black kahler $200 or so odd bucks.

I've just been saving my money till I'm ready to pull the trigger. If the time comes, I will so scan the bay and ask past vendors. It's looking like I'm not building too many more of these so, no more cheap parts. I take my time to make sure the finish is nice too.

I wish I had some better insight as to what is happening here Gents, but I only have speculation.

I, too, have noticed the recent disappearance of Kahlers from the usual sites.

It appears that there has been some sort of disconnect between Kahler and their resellers. I asked Wammi J about this, and never got a response.

But I do know this much. There was a problem last year with so-called "seconds" sneaking their way out of Kahler's overseas production facility, and onto such sites as eBay. I did get confirmation this was going on, and that these items should have never been sold since they had a myriad of defects, as you unfortunately discovered firsthand, MadMike.

Again, I wish I had a better understanding of what is going on, but I cannot seem to get a clear answer from anyone.

In the words of Obi-wan Kenobi: "I sense a great disturbance in The Force".

The other thing I noticed.

you can get the 2xxx models but not the 7xxx models from the kahler website.

$379 or nuthin.

I'll find a black 7410.

This is only further speculation, but I have a possible theory as to why the 7410's have vanished.

Figure that, if you are Kahler, and you are offering both the 2400 series for almost $400, but also, the 7410 series for less than half of this.

So, after most players that soon learn that the differences between the two are so insignificant, most of them decide to go the economical route with the cheaper 7410's.

Sales of the more expensive 2400 series drop.

The bean counters at Kahler notice this, and decide it's time to pull the plug on the 7410's, in the hope that players will fork over the extra cash for the more expensive 2400 series.



If it were me, I'd see that the 7410's fly off the shelves, and would continue to make them the mainstay of the bass trem line, while still keeping the more expensive 2400's in the portfolio for those that wish to have them.

Again, just speculation. PLEASE don't quote me on this. You Guys know me. If I had rock-solid evidence as to what is happening, I would share it with You. I am merely offering a theory here.

I would think it's more a quality and company reputation issue because of the evidence we saw above.

if you export your company's production overseas the idea is cheap mass production at a cheaper price passing on that price to the customers.

when your production goes overseas the attention that goes into the product is different because the production motive is different. Kahler wants to offer a quality product. The overseas mfg just wants to produce as many parts as quick as possible that are, at best, acceptable quality with blems and out of spec parts sneaking thru to consumers in the volume. There is no way, with those logistics and volume, that kahler can keep quality up. Now Kahler has to do the customer service and clean up the mess of unsatisfied customers.

I complained about the seller on amazon who sold me the kahler above. I would bet that he never even looked at it. He pulled it out of inventory, stuck it in a box and shipped it to me. After we learned there was something fishy going on, I retracted my bad review.

... and I still wonder if there was some backdoor fishey deals going on. Again, result of outsourcing production.

this is another situation where I can rant and rave about shipping American jobs overseas and other countries mass producing crap and flooding our American marketplace. Ittl make a business money, but hurts everybody in the long run.

I got an email from Gary Kahler today .....

"Hey ...Mad Mike ...we took it down bc we have discontinued that Bridge .....
However we do have the 2410. In stock .....please ck it out    wwwkahlerusa.com. Click on Bass Trems... Give me a call at: 702-997-3049...Thanks for your inquiry and sorry we don't hv that unit....
Best Regards, gk"

At least this is confirmation it happened but not an explanation as to why.

That seems like a odd decision, I'm sure the 74xx's would have been selling more than the 24xx trems...
Considering the cost difference between them, I'm having a hard time people are going to be willing to drop that kind of a cash on something thats going to leave a giant hole on their bass if they don't like it.

Yep. Exactly what I was thinking, Al.

And I guess this would explain the sudden drop off of the reseller market, since all they ever seemed to carry were the 7410's.

Quite the bummer, and a step backwards IMHO.

A step back for us, yes.

understand, like everybody else, Gary has to eat Ya know.

if the hybrid project was failing to the point of hemoraging money, it's a no brainer. Again, we don't know that but ... what other reason could it be?