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Basszupfer

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PostSubject: Rickenfaker with Trem   Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:18 am

Hi there and happy 2013!

i own two superb rickenbacker 4003 copies from unsung /korea (distributed here in germany unter the label CAREER).
you may thrash me with sticks´n´stones....but i´m really happy with those two black beauties and my REAL rickenbacker 4003 S5 (yeah, one of those rare fivestringers built somewhat in late 80´s) really sucks against them.

is here anyone who modded his ric or even rickenfaker with a kahler (or other basstremsystem)?

unfortunately i´d never had the chance so far to grab a bass with a trem on it.
and afaik from wammiworld....a ric bass isn´t the optimal base for a trem installation (strings don´t go in straight line from machine heads to bridge aso.)

i´m looking forward to purchase me an epi thunderbird. i think it would offer itself better as a base for modding with a trem (straight in line strings on headstock).

excuse me for my maybe bad english (i´m from germany).
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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:49 pm

Hello,

You are right as far as the string angle over the nut goes that a thunderbird would be a more suitable candidate then a rickenbacker. However, this does not mean that a rickenbacker would be a definite no go on only this factor. A lot of guys around here make almost everything work. I hope they will chip in their experiences soon so you can make up your mind about what direction to follow.
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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:41 pm

Greetings, Basszupfer! Welcome to BTF!
I've always been a little leary about throwing a trem on a Ric, but as Jim said, lots of folks here succeed doing unconventional things.
And given how much I've always loved Rics, the thought of having a trem on one really appeals to me.

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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:00 pm

so thank you for your responses!!!!
but there´s another point i want to ask: wammiworld/kahler highly recommends to install those sperzel locking tuners.
what do you think? are they absolutely essential or should i save my money?
in the meanwhile i consider to install a 7415 on my old ibanez btb 405 instead on my ric.
the problem here is that i can´t find nowhere any 2/3 (L/R) machinehead-sets or even single offers.
i´m pretty sure you´ll prove me that i´m not keened to spend lots of money for a 2+2 and a 4 in line set.....
and all pics and vid´s in found on the web.... afai noticed nobody had those sperzels on their basses?

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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:44 am

Spretzels ... not necessary. Just nice to have. It is important to have a good solid machine head. I usually swap out stock with the Gotoh's with the thick string posts.

Ive always found side by side instead of in a row headstocks stay in tune better ... but this is debatateable. I dont see what it is as bout a ric headstock that isnt desirable ... lemme go look at one .....

Most important thing in finding a good bass trem candidate is where the intonation line is. Is there enuff room on the top of the bass to mount the trem with the saddles in the right place?
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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:54 am

I think I could get the rick to work but I def wouldnt do it to a real 4003. Take a look at where the trem would be and the existing hardware. Just too much to do. There are better candidates.

I want to try one of these neck headstocks ....

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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:24 am

my two rickenfakers (coloured the intonation line/saddlepositions in red)


compared to the original bass, where the intonation line sits more in the middle of the bridge:


and a closeup of the faker headstock:



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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:31 am

so you see, that the bridges differs from the original ric system.
here´s a greasy close up of the bridge:
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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:35 am

To me it looks like you've got plenty of room (be sure to measure it with some templates from wammiworld.com).

It looks to me like the kahler won't stick out as far on the back of the bass as the original "rickenfaker" bass. I don't know if there is paint under the bridge (I guess so) and if the colour has faded from influence of sunlight. If the colour on the bass is faded compared to the colour under the bridge you might not like the patch of different coloured body sticking out behind the kaher tremolo.

Hope I make sense.

As I mentioned, the most important thing, looks like plenty of room to me for a kahler tremolo.
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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:04 pm

omg ... that looks like plenty of room from the intonation line to the bottom and from the front of the trem to the bridge pickup.

templates? have a drawing. i havent posted it in a while. sorry, its in inches ........



now, if those top two tuning pegs were a bit further in to get rid of those weird angles between them and the nut, you'de be in busniess. if it were me, and it might be (i've looked at those chinee ricks before), i'de sand the headstock face, plug those tuning holes with some ash or maple and re drill them closer in. refinish the headstock or do a veneer or something ... heck, i'de probably refinish the whole bass at that point. up to you how far your willing to go ... i mean, cheaper bass and you got two of em.
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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:29 am

nobody will thrash you here about copys. That is reserved for the gear snobs on TalkBass.
I have Kahlers on my Charvels. The strings do not come out of the nut straight for any reason and I never had a tuning problem.
Cut the hole, get it in there and enjoy it Smile

there is a guy on talk bass who has 6-7 of them, and he was harassed to the point of the mods shutting down the thread. From WHO? the gear snobs who paid 3grand for their "REAL" Ric's when he paid less than 6 for them when his are very nice in colors that Ric would never make...hahaha

He lives in Australia so there was no import worrys from the copyright trademark of the real Ric company putting a stop to it.
( lucky ba****d )



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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:59 pm

hmmm.....i think i will keep up the idea with installing on one of my ric´s.....until i´ve found a good used 2400 (one with forward rollers). i guess it fits more with the intonation line on the faker.
i hope you´ll understand that i´d keep the whole optical general view on this bass as far as possible.
otherwise i´ll have move up the whole tremhousing, if using a 2410 or 7410.
and redrilling new holes for tuning pegs.... i´m concerned to find some machineheads with longer tune-axis....

i think i´ll trem up my ibanez btb first....the given circumstances on it are more....standard-bass.
bridge:

headstock:


unfortunately (or even blessedly?) ricky´s never were that kind of mainstream instrument.

@amimbari: i totally agree with you!!!! i think it´s most important how an instrument sounds and handle itself. meaningless what brand is stamped on the headstock.
i´m off for spend lots of money for equipment which isn´t "better" than the cheapo copies of it
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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:01 pm

and wow!!!!!!
that doubleneck-beast!!!!! even i would refinish it in black.....
YUMMY!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:01 am

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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:34 am

thanx for post, buddy!
but i´ve decided myself so far to give a first try to my ibanez bass. and when there´s a chance to grab a 2400 with forward rollers i´ll do my best to get it and stick it on the ric.
btw: has anyone tried the 7415 model so far? i´m pretty sure it needs a very more strong hand to detune 5 strings than 4.....
but meaningless, if i´d finally found out how to print the routing templates from wammiword in correct size, i´ll order instantly the 7415.
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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:47 am

MadMike will post soon in more detail, but you have to MAKE SURE you get the new 7415, not the older one with the 5 saddles crammed into a 7410 frame or your string spacing will be so narrow you will hate it..
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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:19 am

definetley!!!!

and so i concerned myself the last very much months with the whole matter of basstrems.
my BTB has full jazzbass stringspacing on top and bottom and so i was awared that only the big 7415 housing will perfectly fit on this bass....
my original ric is a fiver (or better said 5 stings strung on a slightly widered 4string neck).
and for me as a avarage common and garden metal-rockbassplayer this bass is pure horror to play in a "normal" playing mode. you need very thin fingers to pluck it and even playing with pick is very unusual.
although it would be fine to string it with a 5string piccolo set.....a mixed creature of a somewhat 5 string baritone guitar or whatever.
but for my own surprise this thing has a good sounding low B, although ALL rickenbacker basses have a little shorter scales. lies between somewhere 32" and 34".
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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:11 pm

Man....I gotta admit....this thread about your Rics have me jonesin' for one! I have ALWAYS loved those basses!

So Basszupfer, do you have video of you playing?

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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:16 pm

unfortunately not one of myself playing. but i hope me and the 2 other longhaired hippies of our band will gather soon for rehearsal and i will do at least a little vid with my iphone.
but here´s a vid from a german music store testing exactly my career rik 400:


for sure it´s sound differs a little bit from an original ric, ´cause the body is made out of nato-wood. but it has a set-in maple neck with (un-laquered) rosewood fingerboard.
ok, some sophisticated hardcore ric-users say this thing is nuthin more than a piece of crap.....hmmmpff!
but what i surely can say is: the typical vibe is there! and even the model-specific unusual playability. but hey, this is a very unique bass far away from the "fenderish"-standard.
and for my own taste the faker has more punch in the lows and and overall a little more crispiness in whole frequency-spectrum. and i prefer the bridge pickup, though it hum´s a bit. but i will install soon a seymour duncan ric replacement humbucker soon.....
quite naturally i´d strung rotosound swing bass 40-100 on it. the perfect strings for an vintage rocker, imoho!
a little minus is, that this bass needs extralongscale-strings. out of the reason the space behind both contact points (saddle and bridge) is very long.

and so i play in our band a more rough and dirty sound (overdriven tube amp and sometimes added extra distortion with an EHX bass blogger).

what i can say is that this model is distributed here in germany under the label CAREER (built by UNSUNG / korea), which is more known for building really crappy mostly fender copies.
had once grabbed a camouflage flying v guitar copy in a store....unbelievable crappy neck and quality.
i know that there´re other identically constructed ric-copies on the worldwide market, mostly with the brand ROCKINBETTER on headstock.
i think they´re built nearly the same but maybe with a litte bit different pickup´s. so watch out on ebay!
here´s the link where i got mine:

http://www.zoundhouse.de/RIK-400_BK_E-Bass_in_Schwarz/topic/4SaiterEBaesse/shop_art_id/87024/tpl/zh_standard_detail

if they are any further questions....feel free to ask!!!

but hey: this is the first bass-forum which i like so far!!!! and out of the reason the number of members is very manageable.
here in a german speaking bass-forum (bassic.ch) i was nearly thrashed with sticks and stones when i started the topic with installing a kahler or even that i said that i´m a proud clone-player.

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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:47 am

I watched the video twice as the german was flying over my head ... its been a while.
Ha!

Thats why we are here; we get slammed evrrywhere else.

I get scoffed at because I build copies and refinish with no regard for the manufacturers standards. Fender colors look good on gibson style basses. Vintage cork sniffrrs are mortified!
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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:21 am

I say................

Go drop a Kahler on that thing, find a TrussRod cover that says Rikenboker on it and go post it on talk bass.....

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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:13 am

hey Mike would my 2400 forward roller work on his Rik or does he need a 24/7410?
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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:11 am

Ide have no reason not to use a rear saddle model. They just fit on more basses. I cant tell if ittl fit because ive never measured one out.
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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:28 am

cause he asked me to sell him my 2400, and if he can use a 24/7410 then there is no need to.
I would sell it but I wanted to use it for my Tbird build someday where the hole would be cut to match the intonation line of the forward rollers.

EDIT: but then I would be stuck with only being able to use that for a different colored one like gold if I wanted to change it I would never find another.
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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:12 am

Its not a matter of what to buy ... its a matter of what would fit. Forward saddles need a lot of rear real estate ... I dont know how much. Measure it like I did in my drawing mike.
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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:21 am

thanks again, ya i forgot... I was really asking for his rik project, cause i know none of my p- basses have enough room for that, but if I get the tbird project to come true, it would have enough room.
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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:16 pm

start a new thread ... whaddid you need for your t-bird project?
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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:01 pm

so it´s a lazy saturday and i tried the best i could to prepare a little preview study with my very poor and limited skills of using paint.net.
it took me hours and hours to discover how to do photo-layers...
so the 2400 would perfectly fit and looks gorgeous for me on it.
can´t await april, ´cause i´ll get there really much money (signed up a new employment contract) and i´m able to afford my 2400 directly from kahler



tried the same with a 2410, but the housing goes too much up to the top of bass just as i expected.
2400 fits more to the original look.
oh that bass on the pic is a carrer rik with a ric trc on it.

here´s the original unprocessed pic:


so guys, cross ya fingas for me that my project will come to an end soon.
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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:11 am

buy the 2400 from me first cyclops

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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:39 am

Mike keeps trying to sell this.

Im using up my last trem in inventory next week. Gotta re up soon.

Ide buy it but I gotta design a bass for it to fit on.

Whadda ya want for it yinzer?
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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:13 pm

ok, 1st step is done!!!

got my 2400 FW finally!!!!!!



a friend of mine introduced me a local selfemployed luthier. he even worked a few years at german slave-market WARWICK....
but he´ll be able to start routing my bass in next 2-3 weeks. he´s still on to equip his new own workshop.

he showed me 3 guitars that he´s completely selfbuilt.
and i was mostly astonished of the guitar he´s built for his wife. a headless mixed creature of a steinberger full body guitar with ibanez saber shapings.
and with 80´s like cracked laqeur-finish.
i can tell you, that this axe looks like a real masterpiece.....definitively NOT some poor handcraftship.

i hope i´ll be allowed to take some pictures of the axes to share with you in the next weeks.

and so he´s got my pure trust to do the job on my lovely bass.

ok, the trem on the pic looks like a goldchrome one, but it´s real chrome.
bob smith from kahler told me that this one is the very last FW housing that was in stock. gary kahler kept this one for ages.

i´ll keep you informed when the kahlerization goes on!

cheers!
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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:23 am

Glad you found someone you trust. Looking forward to pics ... and perchance us to ask you to ask him for any of his knowledge.

Kshler changed some things in their inventory in the last year. I haven't seen any of it yet. I'm curious what "black chrome" looks like. You got NOS and that's cool ... beautiful trem.
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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:42 am

okay...i posted some pics on facebook just a few moments ago....and i´m now in the mood to rape my newborn bass rightnow.....

but i can tell you so far....this is IT!!!!!!!!!!


" />
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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:54 pm

Absolutely GORGEOUS, Carsten! You scored big time, my brother! And I also saw on the Kahler Facebook page that they gave you and your Kahlerized Ric a shout-out! SO bloody COOL! cheers 

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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:07 pm

The long arm makes it look interesting. Kewl. Glad you dig it!
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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:37 pm

for my own pity there aren´t any 74xx hybrid series with forward saddles so far.... Sad 
i can tell you, that bridge increases the tone on that faker just like hell!

but as you could imagine, the whole thing was a real expensive big ticket item for me.

but everything works well so far, even with that ricky-headstock and it´s angled strings behind the nut.
so a big cheerio for that graphtec nut!!!!!!! cheers 

i really raped that thing the last 2 days and my bass is still 100% in tune.
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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:37 pm

Fantastic! cheers We need videos! Wink 

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PostSubject: Re: Rickenfaker with Trem   Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:56 pm

Kahlers have a lot of brass so they are pretty high mass.I usually notice a tone improvement.

Graphite nut is the way to go.
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