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 new project. put your eye out V440

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madmike

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PostSubject: new project. put your eye out V440   Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:47 am

so, leaving the last job because they shut sown production, i walked out the door with a nice heavy duty router, accessories and routing table platform. now i have almost everything i need, but enuff to do scratch builds. i am still far away from being a "luthier". i still have a lot to learn.

i remember when i was 16 and looking for my first bass. i really wanted a carvin v440 (with a trem), but the list price was $700. since i was dependent on a birthday gift from my kemudgen old father, i ended up getting a no name brand POS, that i learned on and served its purpose. later in life i still wanted the v440 but it got discontinued and sparse and any of the ones i found for sale were beat to crap and still around $700. i saw one on ebay a few months back and it had "burn damage" for $300 ... it was very toasted.

you guys know i'm determined.

so my wife is awesome and bought me a nice piece of swamp ash body blank for christmas .... so here i go.

i designed it from pics i found on the internets in corel. i printed it out, transferred it, made a template and ruff cut the body with a coping saw.



this piece of swamp ash is the nicest cut i've seen in a while. very nice grain ...



i had the warmoth neck from the p bass sitting in storage. 5 years of gigging took its toll on this thing so its ready for a refin. the headstock face was beat so i laminated it with ash burl.



i cranked up the router and did the shape. it came out real well.

now, having worked on many basses over the last few years, the thing that drives me crazy with mass produced basses is the lack of tight tolerance with the neck in the pocket. some have even been known to epoxy or crazy glue the neck in there so it doesnt move (eric). i feel there is no excuse for these sloppy tolerances from these companies and, for what we pay for these basses, the neck should be a tight fit in the pocket. if there is a taper from the nut to the heel, than the tightness of the fit should support the weight of the body............



right?

this was all 2 days of work.

so, last night i routed out the piece of wood for the electronics cavity cover and the cavity ... not much to take pictures of there.

i will keep posting to keep you guys up to date.
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:44 pm

oh hahaha how boring and unattractive....

now if that was a LEFTY??????........well.

j/k you know me and my pointy fetish.

so long story short, this unit has been on my radar since 2002. in 2008 I saw a kid who got it from his uncle, wouldn't sell it still has it....ok fine.
they made 200 total. GB400 Mahogany neckthru made in 1985. ( I did say some stuff about it on here years ago in who knows what thread or on the other board before Eric moved it )
so on TB someone saw my old *** posts and wanted to know if I still wanted one?
YES Smile

400 shipped and he sent me an album of pics as well as some extra detailed shots of places I wanted to see.
I shouldn't do it, but I will be playing 3 gigs this month and will have the money back from them for sure to pay for it.

David Vincent from Morbid Angel had one


and a lot of the pics of the one I'm getting:

https://picasaweb.google.com/106985097270546192864/TakamineGB400?authkey=Gv1sRgCOOS5bPC65jgKg
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:35 pm

OUCH MY EYE!

That thing is wild!

If you really wanted something like that, and you could be patient, I could make a lefty body like that for you mike. All we need is a decent neck to start with (i cant make necks yet and cant do neck thru yet) and some decent straight on pics to make a vector from.

And a trem.
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:45 pm

we are gonna be very busy with shows this summer, i'll have some cash in a few months and give you the CMG as some of the cash needed if at that point you still want it.

I emailed the Vincent site to find out if they kept track of serials because I would love for this one to be one of the ones he used.
since it is a righty it will only be a basement player and a collectible anyway, but the TAK GB series always caught my fancy.

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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:52 pm

Holy smokes. I cant find any info on that bass at all!
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:01 am



the only other GB series they made was the GB410 Arrow ( or whatever they called it )


some guy on TB emailed Takamine and they told him as we always thought it was a XB series not GB.
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:47 am

yeah, theres nothing overly complicated about that bass design at all (except the neck thru).

we could definitely make a reasonable lefty bolt - on facsimile of that bass with some custom electronics (dimarzio, SD, barden, whatever) and a trem (theres plenty of room if not we're making room for it).

that pic above is good enuff to work from. i'll start dilly dallying around with corel when i get some time.
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:09 am

well bolt or NT it matters not to me. the red binding would be a very expensive option obviously compared to a solid color....
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:13 am

oh I forgot that I still have a red lefty series10 with a good neck, or my starfire 24fret neck. and if it REALLY was meant to be, I would part out my black lefty charvel and let you use that neck on another body,
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:20 am

i just rolled thru ebay looking for necks.

fender, fender, fender, fender, fender, fender, fender, fender, fender, fender, fender, i hate fender.

somewhere like GPUSA and warmoth dont really have a pointey headstock design. you could always get a paddle and we can copy or design something. the thing with pointies is the standard block sizes are too small / short. i had to upsize my piece of ash for an additional $30.

... or, if you had a neck that you liked already ... thats just easier. we can always dye the fb ebony.

inlay dots and trim / binding is a whole other trip. dots arent a problem as long as we could find some material. binding is a PIA. masking and shooting lacquer would be the way to go around the body.
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:46 am

im pretty positive that red is painted on.... well like I said a few months ago, summer will be upon us in a few months and your next project will hopefully be mine.
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:19 pm

Ill admit it. My next project ....

Its gonna have 6 strings.

Wanna learn more guitar. I want an sg.
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:46 pm

Man....that GB400....(drool).... Shocked

MadMike, AWESOME job on your V440 knock-off! In fact, I'd be willing to bet that what you are building will be superior to what Carvin made. I well remember back the day when the V440's first came out, and how excited I was that a major company was producing a tremmed bass from the factory. But I, like you, couldn't justify the cost.

One point I want to clarify. As you pointed out, I do glue the neck pockets of all of my basses. But this isn't so much about compensating for a sloppy neck route, but rather, it's more about providing more stability and sustain with my trem. On my old Yamaha BB300, I remember how dramatically the neck would bow backwards as I dropped the trem, and I freaked out a bit. At the same time, I have always heard that air pockets in a neck joint rob sustain, so I reasoned that the glue would take care of that. Now, there is some controversy over whether or not this makes a difference. I remember Darkstrike (Bill) insisting that gluing the neck pocket of a bolt-on wouldn't make one iota of a difference, and to be honest, I don't have a lot of hard data to support my theory. It's more of a comfort thing, I guess. Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:05 pm

Im gonna develop a new piece of testing equipment ......

A sustain-o-nometer.

Furreal, the way I did this pocket, even not bolted on, its press fit in there. I gotta wiggle it around for a few minutes to get it out of the pocket. Bolted on, this thing wont budge.

I want to learn how to make necks next. I would much rather have a glue on tenision joint than a bolt on. Bass is a little different than a guitar, but gibson has made ebOs that way for years.
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:58 am

thanks Eric, when I get it I'll show some pics. I found a member of the Jackson forum that had the guitar version. Said it was a cheap trem, cheap pickups but did play and also said it was a set-neck not NT, so when I get this one I'll see if it is similar or truly a NT.

I bought it for the novelty and since the band is doing good I had the cash not out of my bank account.
Mike S will be busy this spring/summer with projects, I just hope he is not "that" busy to create something for me as well.
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:03 am

your a "returning customer" mike ... you go to the top of the list (only behind me). Smile
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:24 am

when the time comes i'll send the CMG, and 2 lefty necks for the build....one of them should work.
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:46 am

oh ... i can make any of them work. i'm cutting the body to fit the heel and scale of that neck. we'll use the best one.

did you see the posts with the "linear trem"? would this tak be something your willing to try one of these on? its a thru body rout like a hipshot.
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:15 am

i did see that and that looks interesting.
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:27 am

Im trying to get more info on the thing.
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:30 am

I wonder how much a Tune trem would cost


a lot more than I want to spend...lol
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:11 pm

I did look into that .... like the jens ritter design, not for retail sale unless its on the bass.
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:04 am

looking at the close up pictures of that red faux binding mike (it is paint).

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-FvLqClMytPw/Tv1kuW-wYmI/AAAAAAAABNM/coYcO3oPI6s/s912/neck_lower.jpg

i dont know how they did this. in this close up picture you can see two things. i think that the bottom of the bevel to the side is the solid red painted band. the top of the bevel to the top of the instrument is that 1/32" double pinstripe. (!!!!!!!!! Shocked ) i dont know if i can reproduce that exactly. the other thing you can see in the same picture is the red wrapping around the side (where the dot markers would be) to the face of the edge of the fretboard and actually going underneath the frets. possible, but short of redoing the frets the option would be to not wrap around to the face ... or just shoot over top of the frets (along the edge) and clear lacquering the whole neck ... than dressing the frets (that i'll do anyway). the line around the fretboard and headstock dont match the pinstriping around the body .......???????

was just doing a vector mock up this morning and started noticing these details.

remember too ... building this as a lefty from scratch ... we can do whatever we want beyond reason ... color, hardware, electronics, etc. i know, i know, i still havent found a good way to do a crackle finish.

when i post the mock up i'll start a new thread.

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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:26 pm

a black lefty "anything" with red paint binding would be "the bees knees"

remember I'm conservative and old but I think like you. I just couldn't stand another p-bass ---ewww---

That's why you are building the v440 body to get AWAY from everyone elses p-bass look.
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:11 pm

amimbari wrote:
...."the bees knees"

That's showing your age, Mike! Laughing

Of course....the fact that I know that phrase myself only goes to show my age as well! Razz

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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:27 pm

so i am all about getting away from the standard p bass design, and the standards that have bassists pegged to one tone in every song, and that bassists dont solo, or use trems, etc, etc, etc.

but i bring home the ironbird, and refinish it so it looks beautiful and what does wifey say? "it looks real 'loverboy'!"

.... she said the same thing about the v440 .....

ugg.

i think the pointies are a nostalgia thing and an attention thing. the 80's are way over and hitting the stage with a star, a bird or an explorer is just out of the ordinary and wild.

i look at it differently.

if entwistle can get on stage with a spyder or a buzzard in 78 and its cool (its entwistle, how could it not be?) then people like me and mike are doing the same thing ... NOT MIMICKING LOVERBOY.

a single binding type red paint stripe is absolutely doable. i just see that parallel super thin dual red stripe parallel with the binding red stripe being an absolute nightmare and coming out really bad. i just dont have the right materials to mask such a stripe pattern that precise.
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:34 pm

LOVERBOY??? Is she serious?!? Scott Smith never even played an Ironbird or a V440!

Must be the whole 80's vibe thing?

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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:40 pm

i'm shocked that you even know the guys name eric.

Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:13 pm

yo mike.

more than anything, i'de used the american accents products before and had varying results so i made a decision to just stay away from it. some color coats laid down fine with a good coat of clear lacquer over top, some, the lacquer clear would break it down and turn to old man skin and peel off. thats what happened to the first color coat i put on your series 10. i forget what i used next that did work.

these are the reasons we come to places like this and ask a lot of questions. so i can find out why.

and i continue to learn more .........

http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=81

this is an rustoleum american accents product that isnt an enamel or poly. it IS actually a nitro lacquer. when i looked at the msds and tds sheets, i didnt really know what i was looking for to tell me that it is compatible with lacquer clear coat (still really dont). it is lacquer so it definitely is. and its nitro lacquer so it is actually ideal for guitar finishing.

i will do one like this for me in the future. not the steelers crackle ... but are you interested in any of these colors?

as i learn more i'm sure i'll figure out what compatible paints i can use for substitute colors (so we can do the steelers bass!)
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:16 pm

and heres one of the next "non p" designs i want to work on (because i cant afford a john paul jones alembic).

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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:19 am

madmike wrote:
i'm shocked that you even know the guys name eric. Shocked

To be honest, I had to Google it, since I could not remember it off the top of my head. But since I am a child of the 80's, I will admit that I have covered a couple of Loverboy tunes in my first few cover bands. Given the scene and the time, it was hardly avoidable. Rolling Eyes And also, you have to remember that Scott Smith was a Kahler user for a time. Granted, I have never heard any recordings of him using one, and I have yet to find any pictures of his tremmed bass, but I do remember him being listed on Kahler ad pages as a user.

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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:04 pm

I don't think I've ever seen Scott Smith play anything other than either that Spector, Music Man, or whatever that headless he had was, not one had a Kahler. He probably just owned one and never really did anything with it with Loverboy.
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:17 pm

Probably so, Boots.

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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:25 pm

Mike S needs another TEASER picture:

.
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:32 pm

at least that kahler looks nice (see rant)!
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:57 pm

Ok, I got this kahler at a discount ($90), since it was damaged and bought another. Actually, taking a file to it, with a 3rd spring, ittl be fine, so I got 2 hybrids now.

I put some hours in on this carvin today, setting up the neck and routing / installing the kahler. Its starting to look like a bass!

I gotta rout for pickups and 1/4 jack, install electronics, play it for a day or two, then im ready to spray the finish.
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:45 am

Late to the party as always-

I love the V440's my favorite Carvin & probabbly the most collectable / valuable one as well.

Love the Sawmp ash & great job on the neck pocket.




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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:03 am

oooh I kinda like the singlecoil rails better than the HB's...
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:15 am

Reading that I see they offered them in Koa, never saw one. I wonder if they ever made any. The only ones I have seen are the ones in those ads - Black, Blue Metallic & White.
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:17 am

i looked, as i wanted it to be as "carvin" as possible ... carvin doesnt make either models of those pickups anymore.

i recently installed a carvin MM and loved the tone. i wanted to go with that, but i found guitar fetish MM pro pickups for like $30 cheaper. if they stink, then i can always replace them with the carvin MM's.

short of going out and spending $200 on a pickup, i've had bad luck with single coils. i wish i could find the stock single pickups that came in my wasburn tarus somewhere ... this is by far the best sounding single coil bass i've ever had. watch, they probably arent even singlecoils and they are stacked or reverse poll humbuckers or something like that.
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:56 pm

go find dualcoil J like my bardens?
it won't hum Smile

.
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:44 pm

Always keeping my eye out for these. Expensive.

I know. What a quality made pickup.
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:45 pm

(ahem) (cough!) DiMarzio Model J (cough!)

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amimbari

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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:39 am

how's the 440 copy coming along Mike?
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madmike

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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:25 pm

Never did a trans tint finish before. Always wanted to, tried, failed, and know a whole bunch more now. This body is swamp ash and an ideal candidate.

Just wanted to do it following directions and not mess around with other finishing products because thats whats available. Oil based grain fillers are really difficult to find these days and I didnt want to mess with pore o pac or other water based filler. I ordered LMI's tinted grain filler and it took 16 days to get here. I didnt like the color so I tinted it darker with ebony. I really want the grain to stand out.

Grain filled last night and started spraying today. Glad I waited for the right stuff ... the grain goes "BAM!". I should post pics in a week or so.
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:22 pm

I did a transparent finish on my Blueshawk. I used Dye, then clear. I had a couple of sand throughs that I had to touch up. Keep the extra dye if you do it. Another really cool effect with swamp ash is to dye the wood then back fill the grain with white or black paint or epoxy then sand back the fill color.
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madmike

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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:20 pm

the grain filling and sand sealer just werent going my way ... on top of the 100 million other things i'm trying to work on in this house. anyhow, as usual, i forced my will upon it untill it decided to see things my way. i got the trans tint down so this is something what its gonna look like ......



and the burl ask hedstock veneer .....



now ... anyone remember when i was trying to do a finish like this on a p bass and it kept ending up green? i ended up just painting it solid blue.

i know a little bit more about refinishing these days.
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:04 am

Love it. Looks great. Nice ash!
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:39 am

i like that also, certainly different than a solid color Smile
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PostSubject: Re: new project. put your eye out V440   Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:05 am

Went down to touch up a few light spots with the little bit left in the can and .........

pppppphhtttththththhhaaaaat. Doh!

This stuff is very forgiving. Another coat will make it a tad darker but will make the spatters lay in and go flat. I gotta order another can tho.
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