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EricHaven
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PostSubject: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:38 pm

Obviously, finances are the driving factor in anything I do. Ever since Hammered has begun playing out, I've been looking at different rig options that are within my budget. Mostly, this is fueled by the fact that Andy has an extra Audio Technica UHF wireless unit that he said I can borrow. The idea of being able to jump around the entire bar is definitely appealing. He told me "too bad you need two units" since I run a stereo signal.

Hmmm....thinking, thinking, thinking. Is there a way I can get the same results I'm after with only one signal?

scratch

So I came up with an idea I'm going to try the next time we jam together. I just secured a Behringer pedal tuner that has two outputs, one which is toggled with the switch, and the other which is always on. I read online that both outputs in pedal tuners are always active....so....what if I were to take the one side to feed my distortion amp, and the other to feed the clean amp? I figure that the added gain of both my preamps along with the additional gain of the wireless unit might compensate for the loss of gain in splitting the signal. This, and the fact that I would use the output from my EMG DC40, which I believe has a higher output due to the onboard preamp. If it works, then I've accomplished my objective without spending a single penny.

Any thoughts Guys?

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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:01 pm

This kinda defeats the purpose of having a true stereo bass ... right? Your talking about having one channel comming out of your bass into a wireless ... to the receiver, then splitting, effect on one channel, then preamp(s), then rigs?

This is what im doing with the boss processor with the distortion and some other patches when im running 2 rigs from a mono bass. The effects chain can be set up thru 2 separate channels ... distortion on b and clean on a then there are a and b, mono / stereo outs. The processor splits the channel.

Even running in mono, the channel split effects chain allows me to blend the distortion with the clean tone. Not as much "boom" as the stereo in all distorted tones ... but how many more do I need than 3?

Now, there's also dynamic switching and ctrl 1 and 2 channel controls and the crossover on my amp.

So your figuring out one way to do it and I have several.

Ill tell you the cheapest most efficent way to split the channel with wireless is with a stereo bass and two wireless units or a processor, effect or preamp thattl split the channel. You can try that berringher but it still only has one in ... right?
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:16 pm

madmike wrote:
This kinda defeats the purpose of having a true stereo bass ... right?


Indeed it does. But for me, it's not about having the bass be in stereo so much as getting the desired results. The only reason I did so in the first place was that I couldn't figure out a way to get the sound I wanted with a mono signal. But if there was a way to make it work, I would do so.

madmike wrote:
Your talking about having one channel comming out of your bass into a wireless ... to the receiver, then splitting, effect on one channel, then preamp(s), then rigs?


Persactly.

madmike wrote:
So your figuring out one way to do it and I have several.


Precisely why I threw this question out there. Wink

madmike wrote:
Ill tell you the cheapest most efficent way to split the channel with wireless is with a stereo bass and two wireless units or a processor, effect or preamp thattl split the channel.


Ah, but this isn't the cheapest way for me to go. Andy has six of the transmitter packs, but only two receivers of which he uses one already, and they are all the Audio Technica ATW R2100 series. The receivers alone are $200. Since he has extra transmitters and one extra receiver, that's one channel down. But I would have to invest in a second receiver.

madmike wrote:
You can try that berringher but it still only has one in ... right?


That's my point. I would take the wireless output and run that into the single input of the tuner, then take the split signal from the tuner to drive my two channels. Cheap is the order of the day, and if I can make this work, it would be the cheapest route. But if I can't make it work, then I will stick with running cords.

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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:19 pm

Im using the boss gt10b now. It has better sounding effects overall, but the main reason I upgraded is because there is no time delay when switching effects / patches. I bought this unit new for about $400.

Before that I had the boss me-50b. Like I said, time delay in the switching of patches. It has the dual channel outs and effect chain placement including extension loop. New it was$ $250 ... I've seen them on CL for $60. Ide consider buying another one. This would properly split your channel.
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:24 pm

I don't know if that berrhinger will split the channel properly. The switch would be a bypass or not. If not ... its a hardwired switch in series or parallel to the two outs? How would that affect your signal?
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:00 am

My brain never stops ... its not always correct and it gets annoying.

Just concerned about the signal you're gonna get out of a pedal that's not designed to do what you expect. Tuning bypass signals are usually -20 dB. Try it ... might work.

Dig this ....

Poor mans dist stereo rig .....

Bass (one channel) ... transmitter ... receiver ... amp / speakers (clean channel) ... di or line out ... distortion processing ... second amp / speakers.

This is assuming your running a head with a di out.

Downside .... if a soundguy wants to di you into the soundboard at a gig your di is occupied. He could only mic your cabs.
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:51 pm

so your gonna get 1 wireless for free, buy another one and wear 2 beltpacks...

take the money your gonna get from the next gig and spend it on another wireless on a different channel.
I mean you do get 100 or so from the gigs right? don't use any of the money on beer for the night.

so easy a kid thought of it -- well a 51 year old kid Sad

I've been using the same old 10 year old sampson UHF twinDiversity with no problems ever. go find one for 25 bucks used

oh look here's one now and I won't bid on it so you can Smile
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150622014870&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en

AND the back of the receiver has an XLR out so you can DI to the PA.
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:16 pm

Hmmm....lots to chew on here. scratch But great advice Guys! Keep it coming! Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:28 pm

OK....tried out my idea last night at practice....and all I can say is....WOW!!!! Shocked

It actually worked!!!!

The two outputs from the tuner had the exact same level. The EMG pickup had more than enough power to compensate for the signal split. Both my Digitech RP6 and GK preamps had more than enough headroom to balance everything out. My amps had next to no hum at all, and I got nearly the exact same response as I do running stereo outs. The wireless performed flawlessly, and I could't stop from running all around the studio as we jammed. I still managed to retain the harmonic content, as well as being able to pull feedback. The overall change in my tone was practically nil.

So does this mean that I've left behind running stereo? Probably not. I do miss being able to do a mix on the bass itself. That, and the fact that I also miss the tone of the bridge pickup driving my distortion. But for now, this works well, and I get to use a wireless. Once I can afford to do so, I'll invest in a second wireless and go back to stereo.

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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:53 pm

Kewl! cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:23 am

well good for you on 2 counts.. that samson wireless I said I would not bid on, I AM now cause you aren't,
and it ends today so hopefully I'll win it Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:36 am

Cool Eric! Glad it worked out...

Do you have any way of recording and giving us an audio example of the results??
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:53 pm

We do have the means to do a basic overall room recording at our practice studio, but not anything that will yield decent quality. Our recording studio would be the place to do this. But I'll see if I can't get a better recording tonight at practice.

Mike, I might have gone for that wireless, but I don't normally do auction bidding. I'm more of a Buy It Now kinda guy. Wink True, you can save money on something, but I don't want to fight over an item, I don't want to wait for an item, and you don't even know if you will wind up winning.

Like I said earlier, I will eventually go back to stereo. For now, I want to play with the wireless. Andy told me he'd sell me this one for $100, and that he'd take payments. Not bad for an Audio Technica ATW R2100 UHF unit! He also has an extra transmitter pack that he will sell to me for almost nothing once I can get my hands on another ATW R2100 receiver.

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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:22 am

impatience will kill you. i won it for 20.50 Smile

if it's the same channel as my other one ill sell it to you for 20 bucks.
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:30 pm

OK! cheers

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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:43 pm

Aw, bullocks. Maybe I was too hasty in my enthusiasm. scratch Here I thought my single channel/wireless routine was working, but I may have been mistaken.

We are playing a gig tonight, and the only night we could practice for tonight was this past Wednesday. So as we jammed, I begin to notice something wasn't quite right with my tone. Why this did not occur earlier, or more precisely, why I did not notice it sooner, I have no clue. But there it was. Some clipping in my clean side, and loss of harmonic tone in my distortion side.

I thought back to when I first tried using the wireless, and how my drummer had said, "something's missing". But I really didn't notice a huge difference at the time.

So I went over to Andy's last night to try every possible combination of tests that I could think of. I swapped amps, cables, and speakers. Still, the same results. Clipping in the clean amp, loss of content in the dirty side. I even bypassed the wireless.

So then, my brilliant wife Linda asks me "what if you were to lose the wireless/single channel thing, and try hooking up with two cords again just to see what happens?" So, I did just that.

And guess what?

Problems fixed.

As soon as I fired up my amps, instantly Andy went "now THAT'S your sound!"

So I guess I'll need a second wireless unit after all. In the mean time, I'm back to stereo out of the bass, and running my two cords. It's a bummer, as I was looking forward to having the freedom of wireless. But I do not want to sacrifice my tone in order to have the freedom, so I am happy to now be back to a stereo signal.

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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:24 pm

What about a DI line out to the distorted rig like I suggested?
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:52 pm

True. I could give that a whirl, but I don't have a DI. I'd have to plunk down for one, and I'm a little hesitant to spend money on something that might not work. But I'll see if I can borrow one to test it out. At any rate, I am really happy with the sound I have, and having everything work perfectly last night at our gig was more than enough to make up for not being wireless. One of these days! Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:35 am

What model are your amplifier heads? That don't have a di line out???
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:21 am

Bear in mind that I don't use "heads" per se. I use my Digitech RP6 pedalboard as the preamp for my distortion channel. This is then fed into one side of my QSC power amp. And until I can round-up an actual bass preamp, I am using a little GK combo amp as the preamp for my clean channel. I take the send out of it, and that feeds the other side of my QSC power amp. See?

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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:14 pm

That's a crazy setup ...signal here, signal there and back over here again. Any line out you got is used.

I still have the ART TPS II preamp. Its a 2 channel 12xa tube preamp. 2 line outs each channel. You can put the distortion between the two and out from each. PM me your address and ill ship it to you.
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:19 pm

madmike wrote:
I still have the ART TPS II preamp. Its a 2 channel 12xa tube preamp. 2 line outs each channel. You can put the distortion between the two and out from each. PM me your address and ill ship it to you.

Cool! You mean to borrow for testing, right?

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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:33 pm

I mean, it sitting unused isn't doing anyone any good.
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:48 am

SWEET! PM on the way!

By the way, I finally just bit the bullet on the whole wireless issue. Since Andy already has an extra Audio Technica ATW R2100 receiver, and two extra transmitters, it was basically up to me to find another receiver. And I found one on eBay for $80! So now I'll have two complete systems to use, and I can keep doing things the way I've been doing them.

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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:07 am

wow --- what other gear is just "sitting"?

haha no j/k actually I just bought a blue Jackson CMG for 150 bucks shipped from a friend, he said he sold it on ebay and 20 days later the buyer said he sold him a bass with a stripped TR nut. I told him to say F-U to the buyer as it was not damaged before he got it, but my friend is a softy and refunded his money and took it back. He hates anything b.o. and asked if I wanted it.. HELL YA I DO!!

I have extra TR nutss so yay a CMG for100 bucks..how could I say no?....and if the TR is toast and I can't play it, I'll hang it on the wall.
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:59 pm

Or have me fix it.......

I hve a stu mac tool for the quick job and ......

I can take necks apart and install new tr. Easy.
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:05 pm

that would be the "next step" and it is a bound neck..does that make a difference?

he got it at his place today and will ship it tomorrow or the next day and is in NY so by the end of the week I'll have it to see what is up this weekend. For all I know this buyer used a USA not a 7mm socket on it and rounded it off??...who knows...
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:35 pm

And oh yeah ... leveling and crowning tools too.

I do have a buncha stuff laying around; parts, speakers,etc. Maybe I will clean house soon.
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:16 pm

I'll always throw money at you if you need guitar work obviously......

maybe, just maybe I can find a lefty explorer or tbird body for a couple hundred unfinished and all the cmg stuff would be used to make a 3 HB reversehead version and you can create me a bass and have your guy make a lefty jackson sticker so it looks correct.

I wouldn't care if it was pine, mahog,maple,beech, even poison SUMAC like the series10 the money well spent for something that will be around for many years, cause if i went to sell it, I would get peanuts for it.

ERIC, the wireless thing you have already settled, and the one I bought for 20bucks is not on the same channel as my other one so someday someone will want it. Actually if you really wanna know the story of why I went wireless back in the analog days, I'd have to start a thread but there is no topic on "stories from back in the day"

so START a thread that the title is PXR basses "suggestions/ideas" or something and like I said when you did the S10, you should have burned a logo in the cavity or something.
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice as I'm going to try an experiment   Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:34 pm

I was gonna do a pxr logo somewhere on it, but being between jobs and the jackass I was freelancing for, I just didn't have the resources.

I have a vinyl cad cutter for headstock logos and a cnc rotary engraving machine at my disposal now.

Sumac neck .... awesome.

Layers of compressed and glued together popsicle sticks. Ha!
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