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SPYD3R #9

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PostSubject: some question about kahler   Mon May 30, 2011 2:36 am

greetings, i'm Leo from Indonesia

i kinda newbie on tremolo things, so i had some question, hope u guys can help

1. whats the different about 2145 and 7415 model? hybrid?
2. whats the different about rearward and forward facing saddle? plus/minus form each saddle maybe?
3. will it fit? and which kahler should i get for my Cort RB5 5str?



Last edited by SPYD3R #9 on Tue May 31, 2011 5:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Mon May 30, 2011 12:43 pm

good questions.

eric can answer the difference between the 2000 and 7000 hybrid series trems. i have always had the hybrid 7410's so i have nothing to compare it to.

the next two questions can be answered together.

just been my experience and i think the experience with most installing a kahler on a bass is that rearward facing saddles are the only ones that will fit on a bass at all. it depends on how much room or real estate there is behind the intonation line to the bottom of the bass from your existing bridge.

in case you didnt know, the intonation line is the line thru the middle of the forward and rearward facing saddle positions perpendicular with the strings so that no matter what fret the string is held down on, it will be in proper tune.



this is how you line up, forward to back, where the base of the kahler will sit ... the middle line of the range, forward and backward, of the saddles on the kahler needs to fall right on the intonation line of the bass.

this being said, most basses without a tone of "real estate" wont work with forward facing saddle kahlers because the base of it will be hanging off the back of the bass. rearward facing saddles gives you more room because the base will sit a little bit further.

looking at your cort ... i dont think a forward facing saddle trem will fit on that bass. i guess that you have just enuff room for a rearward facing saddle trem ... but you'll need to take those measurements and determine that for yourself.

the bases of the 5 string models are wider ... but i think from front to back, and the depth (the next crucial measurement you will encounter) are the same as the 4 string models ... so these diagrams will give you some information to start taking measurements. remember, all measurements that are the information that you need to know all originate from the intonation line. if you install a trem and the new saddles cant be adjusted to the intonation line, it will never be able to be properly tuned with the frets going up the neck so you need to know where that line is and to get the saddles in there, if there is enuff room on your bass.




the next measurements your gonna need to figure are depth. there is a range the saddle and its manifolds need to fall into. you dont want the saddle manifolds all the way down and horizontal with the top of the bass because the strings will buzz on them ... there needs to be a slight "jacked up" angle on them. people have "shimmed up" the neck to meet the higher string action ... i prefer to countersink the whole trem into the top of the bass to meet the basses established playing plane. on the one hand its my personal preference. on another hand, people have gotten by. on another hand, i would never buy a bass that neck shimming has been done to (if i can avoid it). and yet another hand ... i have seen some cats destroy basses doing this.




see how its sittin down in there? this was a neck through ... so neck shimming wasnt even available ... it just is and what i believe the way to avoid future problems and the proper way to do it.

hope all this helps.
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Mon May 30, 2011 1:29 pm

Greetings Leo! MadMike covered your second two questions, so I'll be happy to answer your first question.

The Kahler 2400 series are sold on the main Kahler site. They are more expensive than the 7400 series because they are mostly handmade, and contain all steel and brass parts.

The Kahler 7400 Hybrid series are sold through Kahler re-seller sites. They are less expensive than the 2400 series because they are mostly machine-made, and have some aluminum parts. Also, the arms are slightly shorter than those that come with the 2400 series. But the 7400 Hybrids have string claws that can be adjusted side-to-side, whereas the claws on the 2400 series are stationary.

I've used both, and can hardly tell the difference.

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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Mon May 30, 2011 6:53 pm

@madmike : thanks for the explanation, it give me enlightenment.. so i must looking for 7415 rearward saddles and black hardware..

@erichaven : thanks for the answer, so one more question about 7415, it can fit the 19mm string spacing, right?
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Mon May 30, 2011 7:52 pm

Generally speaking ... the rear facing saddle system, you'll need 2" from the intonation line to the back of the bass and 1.5" to the closest pickup.

Sorry about the english measurement. Im on my phone so tomorrow ill do some coversions to metric and chek on your string spacing. I do know the string spacing on the hybrid systems is adjustable but I don't know what the +- range is on the 5ers.
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Sun Jun 12, 2011 5:55 pm

madmike wrote:
Generally speaking ... the rear facing saddle system, you'll need 2" from the intonation line to the back of the bass and 1.5" to the closest pickup.

so i've downloaded kahler template from wammiworld, printed it, and comes sumthin' like this



as you can see, there are limited space between the rear pickup and the end of bass body, still it fit, but i can't make sure about the proper measurement for the installation scratch
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:48 pm

I dunno............

Hey eric! You got a fiver. Does that look a little big to you?

... and remember, that's just a template for the pocket. I don't know if that template is an exact footprint of the base of the kahler. Chek it. All the measurements for all the kahlers are on the site. And remember ... all your measurements need to originate from the intonation line. Just because the base fits on your bass doesn't mean that ittl be in the right spot.
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:55 pm

Excellent points, MadMike.

Whew....that's pretty close. Without holding the bass itself, I am hesitant to commit to an answer as to whether or not it will work. I mean, it could work fine, but whoever did the routing would have to have a steady set of hands to be sure there wasn't a major loss of wood off the back end of the body.

I'm really at a loss here.

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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:13 pm

madmike wrote:
I dunno............

Hey eric! You got a fiver. Does that look a little big to you?

... and remember, that's just a template for the pocket. I don't know if that template is an exact footprint of the base of the kahler. Chek it. All the measurements for all the kahlers are on the site. And remember ... all your measurements need to originate from the intonation line.

i've check it, and that was exact size for 7415-7416 routing template, but i wasn't sure about the intonation line measurement

madmike wrote:
Just because the base fits on your bass doesn't mean that ittl be in the right spot.

i'll noted that, thanx bro..

EricHaven wrote:
Excellent points, MadMike.

Whew....that's pretty close. Without holding the bass itself, I am hesitant to commit to an answer as to whether or not it will work. I mean, it could work fine, but whoever did the routing would have to have a steady set of hands to be sure there wasn't a major loss of wood off the back end of the body.

I'm really at a loss here.


yupe, that's the problem, none of Indonesian luthier hold an authorization repair nor installation for the kahler
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:34 am

How about this ....

My first shot at learning how to do this, I decided to sacrifice a bass. I know, seems like a waste, but there is definately a learning curve.

Go buy an ugly piece of crap 5 that you'll know it fits on and learn on that before you go cutting into an instrument that's valuable, irreplacable or just a difficult install so you don't end up with a pile of firewood.

I know ... you just want the thing on your bass and not what you want to hear, but that is truely the best advise.
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:20 pm

Not a bad suggestion, MadMike.

SPYD3ER, I totally understand your wanting to do this, and I wish we had better answers for you. Unfortunately, bass trems aren't small things, and they take up quite a bit of real estate on a bass body, especially on a fiver. And the thing is that doing any sort of major mod such as a trem on a bass is pretty much permanent, so it's not like you can recover gracefully from any sort of disaster. Yet again for the millionth time, this is why I created this site. To try and get as much information into the hands of players so they can make an educated decision as to whether or not a bass trem will work for them.

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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:39 pm

EricHaven wrote:
Not a bad suggestion, MadMike.

SPYD3ER, I totally understand your wanting to do this, and I wish we had better answers for you. Unfortunately, bass trems aren't small things, and they take up quite a bit of real estate on a bass body, especially on a fiver. And the thing is that doing any sort of major mod such as a trem on a bass is pretty much permanent, so it's not like you can recover gracefully from any sort of disaster. Yet again for the millionth time, this is why I created this site. To try and get as much information into the hands of players so they can make an educated decision as to whether or not a bass trem will work for them.

indeed, so i've decided to leave it that way, for my cort RB5 still with the stock bridge

about the kahler tremolo, i 'll keep it for my next project custom bass, it will be a 5str deluxe jazzbass shape, 24 frets, 35' scale, ash body, maple/maple for fingerboard and neck, nordy pups (NP5 & MM5.2) aguilar obp3 preamps, hipshot detuner, graptech TUSQ nut and graptech string tree, kahler tremolo bridge

i live in Jakarta, but my dad live in Philadelphia, so if any of fine bass builder live nearby Philadelphia, suggest them to me Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:17 pm

Bass builder in philadelphia?

Yeah. Me. I live 20 minutes west of the city. Im right next to valley forge.

I have a custom 4 string with a kahler for sale right now.

Finding a 5er jazz body, restoring it, rebuilding it and customizing it with a kahler is no problem ... if you got the loot. Iddid take 2 months tops.

Ill do some research and get you some numbers.
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:48 pm

madmike wrote:
if you got the loot. Iddid take 2 months tops.

Ill do some research and get you some numbers.

wow! that was fast, don't get me wrong, but i can't afford or customized another bass that soon, i didn't had the loot right now, i just bought a motorbike weeks ago, so we'll see how things going in the next several month
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:01 am

yeah ... fast. i'm outta work right now and just trying to keep busy ... and i usually chek in here daily.

hows this?

i got another customer wants me to assemble a jazz 5er. so i guess i'm in the "jazz bass" building part of my career.

i'll do the research, find the bass and the parts and build it to your specs. if you want to buy it, you got first dibs on it. if not, i'll just put it in my inventory and post it for sale.

and here goes more of the de tuner back and forth ...........

the only thing i'm not ok with on the specs you posted is the hipshot detuner.

keeping any instrument in tune with a trem is an issue. there are tricks to doing it, and i use them all when necessary short of something extreme like locking plates. my first kahlered bass would be out of tune when i divebombed, but would be back in tune with a quick pull up on the bar. it was very sensitive. the last two i've done have no tuning issues.

the kahler's "in tune" position is maintained by a balance between the springs on the cam and the string tension pulling against each other. the difference of friction on each different diameter string and their angles makes them "hang up" or "slip thru easier" on these friction points. if the differences are too great, then as the trem returns to its home position, the strings will not return to their original tension and "in tune" position. like i said, these differences can and will be overcome.

now.

all the strings are in tune, balanced to a true bridge cam "home" position with their tension correct and the springs on the cam. you flip the de tuner to drop the key. now there is less tension on the string that happens to have the most tension on it (even moreso on a 5 with that big ole honkin B string). the cam will react to the difference in tension by moving away from the nut and neck, pulling the rest of the strings tighter. now all the rest of the strings will be tuned sharp and out of tune (how much, i dont know). if you change the tension on one string with a bridge that moves, that tension will balance itself out elsewhere ... the other strings.

physics, right? does this make sense to you?

now.

there are cats here who have done it. these cats will also swear up and down that when they flip the hipshot that their tuning stays fine. maybe it does and maybe it doesnt ... i dont know. maybe its just good enuff for them. not being perfect would make me go nutz.

i, on the other hand, am extremely particular about my tuning, being in tune and my gear working correctly. even after playing a song on my bass and using the kahler with it working correctly, i still chek the tuning. being at practice or onstage and going out of tune is so distracting to me it makes me crazy.

and i dont want an inferior, not working correctly product leaving my shop. i'm trying to build a reputation here.

so, with the statements about my belief of the physics of it, i would never try it. just seems like an extreme amount of work and extra expense for something that does so little and MIGHT make the kahlered bass not work correctly. that and i already play in DADG and compensate in my playing for a piece of music that calls for something on a low E string up a step. i've installed hipshots on non trem basses and they are cool and useful but not necessary for me.

and there have been people who have gotten all upset, had internet battles and left this board because of this. like i said, i dont know if it works or not. i'm not telling anyone that they are right or wrong and i'm not telling anyone what to play or not to play. i encourage everyone to try different things and experiment and thats what all of us are about here at BTF.

if you would like to put a de tuner on it after i build it .... thats entirely up to you.

what kinda motorcycle did you get????????
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:06 am

is that better eric????

i'm trying man.
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:58 am

ya that's pretty detailed Mike.
Lets say in my experience ( although I have only had 2 Kahlered basses and naturally both 'as Eric says' with wonky angles off the nut thanks to the pointyheads ), I detune a string, the others follow, never had it any other way.

sure I can tune it up to wherever, but not on the fly.

and DADG what happened to DGCF?
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:30 pm

DADG ... a.k.a. "drop d"

been playing that way for about 12 years now.
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:50 pm

ya ya I know, just teasing. Mine is CGCF
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:55 pm

oh and SPYDER, when you see this, Mike rebuilt my bass from a broken POS ( http://basstremfanatics.forumotion.net/t772-the-official-series10-restoration-thread ) and I have NO COMPLAINTS.
price was right, job was well done, and a lot of interaction between him and me while it was being done.
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:46 pm

Im still waiting for you to post a pic of you actually playing it.
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:32 pm

I did post 2 videos 3 months ago - where you been
http://basstremfanatics.forumotion.net/t814-speed-riffage-on-the-series10

and oh pics ?
but theres no kahler on it Sad

.
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:40 pm

Wow ... I did totally miss all that.

But ... awesome!
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Sun Jun 19, 2011 2:16 pm

madmike wrote:
is that better eric????

i'm trying man.

Thanks, Bro. Yes it is. Cool

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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:23 pm

madmike wrote:
hows this?

i got another customer wants me to assemble a jazz 5er. so i guess i'm in the "jazz bass" building part of my career.

i'll do the research, find the bass and the parts and build it to your specs. if you want to buy it, you got first dibs on it. if not, i'll just put it in my inventory and post it for sale.

that was nice to hear, but i'm not sure man, my specs was based on my personal taste, and if it turn up that i can't afford it when the bass is ready, then i'm afraid that i became a burden for you..

madmike wrote:
and here goes more of the de tuner back and forth ...........

the only thing i'm not ok with on the specs you posted is the hipshot detuner.

keeping any instrument in tune with a trem is an issue. there are tricks to doing it, and i use them all when necessary short of something extreme like locking plates. my first kahlered bass would be out of tune when i divebombed, but would be back in tune with a quick pull up on the bar. it was very sensitive. the last two i've done have no tuning issues.

the kahler's "in tune" position is maintained by a balance between the springs on the cam and the string tension pulling against each other. the difference of friction on each different diameter string and their angles makes them "hang up" or "slip thru easier" on these friction points. if the differences are too great, then as the trem returns to its home position, the strings will not return to their original tension and "in tune" position. like i said, these differences can and will be overcome.

now.

all the strings are in tune, balanced to a true bridge cam "home" position with their tension correct and the springs on the cam. you flip the de tuner to drop the key. now there is less tension on the string that happens to have the most tension on it (even moreso on a 5 with that big ole honkin B string). the cam will react to the difference in tension by moving away from the nut and neck, pulling the rest of the strings tighter. now all the rest of the strings will be tuned sharp and out of tune (how much, i dont know). if you change the tension on one string with a bridge that moves, that tension will balance itself out elsewhere ... the other strings.

physics, right? does this make sense to you?

if you would like to put a de tuner on it after i build it .... thats entirely up to you.

yupe! that was make sense and enlighten me, so detuner wasn't suitable with kahler tremolo bridge

madmike wrote:
what kinda motorcycle did you get????????

it was Yamaha Scorpio Z, 225cc, for my daily commuter
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:35 pm

amimbari wrote:
oh and SPYDER, when you see this, Mike rebuilt my bass from a broken POS ( http://basstremfanatics.forumotion.net/t772-the-official-series10-restoration-thread ) and I have NO COMPLAINTS.
price was right, job was well done, and a lot of interaction between him and me while it was being done.

yeah, i saw the thread, it was nice!! i like the headstock btw

madmike, do you have a website about your craftsmanship? if u don't, i think u should make one, because u got the skill and the competence to rebuilt and repair any kind of bass, and u make some good reputation here cheers
u also can post the before-process-after pics and the customer will share their experience about it, just my 2 cents Smile
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:41 am

lol, I only WISHED I could ride something like that at 80-100milespergallon to work every day, just not practical or safe enough to do so.

I had many dirt bikes and 3 streetbikes in my history, but once I broke my leg and ankle I said 4 wheels for life Smile
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:52 pm

amimbari wrote:
once I broke my leg and ankle I said 4 wheels for life Smile
me to, once i broke my left wrist, after 6 month of treatment, i'm back on the bike till now..
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:11 pm

I love riding ... but I haven't had a bike since 92. I had an 83 AMC harley sportster. Noisy, blew smoke, ran ruff, leaked oil, tons of fun.

I can't afford a bike because all my money goes to this house, my shop and bass parts.

Building a bass to your specs is no burden whatsoever if you don't buy it. Im gonna build more basses no matter what they are. If someone wants options that wouldn't sell, or i wouldnt want to be stuck with i can say no or require a deposit. If I don't build them to others specs, ill just keep building basses I like and that would be a limited market.

Hot rodded 5 string jazz bass with a trem? If you don't buy it, it would definately sell ... or I wouldnt mind getting stuck with it either.
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:23 am

madmike wrote:
I love riding ... but I haven't had a bike since 92. I had an 83 AMC harley sportster. Noisy, blew smoke, ran ruff, leaked oil, tons of fun.

I can't afford a bike because all my money goes to this house, my shop and bass parts.

Building a bass to your specs is no burden whatsoever if you don't buy it. Im gonna build more basses no matter what they are. If someone wants options that wouldn't sell, or i wouldnt want to be stuck with i can say no or require a deposit. If I don't build them to others specs, ill just keep building basses I like and that would be a limited market.

Hot rodded 5 string jazz bass with a trem? If you don't buy it, it would definately sell ... or I wouldnt mind getting stuck with it either.

me badly want a harley.... the real bike!!
it's totally different thing between Indonesia and USA for sure, here at big city of Indo, a bike is like a primary transportation needs for people, it had wide range of price, started from $200-$20.000, so a harley davidson had it own class, a luxury kind of ride indeed Cool

back to the bass, honestly I was a bit of awkward yet i was pleased and honored at the same time found that you will build a bass with my specs although i am not sure if i can afford to buy it eventually, but if it is really what you want for you to do, then I will be more detail
as i said before, it will be

the "must have" things:
- 5str deluxe jazz bass body shape,
- 24 frets
- prefer 35' scale, but 34' will do fine
- swamp ash body with wild wood grain on natural glossy oil finish
- maple/maple for fingerboard and neck
- fast and thin neck with strengthening graphite rods
- fender-ish deluxe headstock with 4+1 layout 17mm tuner hole
- black block inlay and black binding (optional)
- all chromes hardware (plate, tuner, strap pin, kahler bridge, etc)
- 19mm string spacing
- nut width 1-7/8"
- top rout
- black pickguard
- graptech black TUSQ XL nut
- graptech black TUSQ XL string tree
- kahler 7415 tremolo bridge
- dunlop straplock
- passive pickups
- active/passive preamps

the "nice to have" things :
- nordstrand pickups (NP5 & MM5.2)
- aguilar obp3 preamps (4 knobs + 1 switch layout will be wired --> Vpp, Bl, M, M sw, T/B stack)
- swamp ash body with walnut burl top and matching headstock
- gold anodized pickguard
- all gold hardware

for the "must have" things, basically it will look exactly like this fender jazz bass American deluxe V
but with a split coil Pbass style for the neck pickup and humbucker musicman style for the bridge pickup and kahler bridge


the jazz bass body shape with a split coil Pbass style and humbucker musicman style (ignore the reverse P, the rosewood fingerboard and the white finishes)

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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:34 am

Yeah, that's easy ... short of the cost.

There are namebrands that are stated that drive the price up. While nordstrand, agular and fender are great products, there are other products with the same specs for 1/3 to 1/2 the price.

I've been using Tesla pickups ...they are awesome. For specific spec pickups I've been ripping apart and rewinding diesel pickups ... they are half decent. I would need to chek the specs but Tesla equivalent of the nordstroms would knock maybe $200 off the price.

Agular preamps are just overpriced. Again, they are good but not $200 gooder. Chek out audere audio.

Was looking at the bodies last night. A used (and not knowing what your getting or getting a mex sealed body or not knowing what's under the paint) FENDER 5st ash jazz body (whole bass) is about $600 to $800. Good luck to just find the body, or just finding the neck but this also involves buying all the parts I wont use. I could start with a cheap brand like SX. I might get lucky and find parts. I might just have Warmoth or mighty mite cut it ... cause then its exactly what we want at a reasonable price ... a Warmoth delux jazz swamp ash 5st is like $185. The neck would be like $200.

Ill go down the list and price everything out with the namebrand stuff and cheaper subbed in so you're get a general idea.
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:56 am

wow! those fenders are $1800 to $1900 new.

http://sxbasses.com/?p=107
now thats more manageable.

http://www.usacustomguitars.com/bodypricing.html
this is nice.
http://www.usacustomguitars.com/neckpricing.html
thats a little steep.

and after all that searching, i still come back to this ....
http://www.warmoth.com/Showcase/ShowcaseItem.aspx?i=d270&Body=2&Bass=1&Path=Body
and a little steep but worth it ....
http://www.warmoth.com/Showcase/ShowcaseNeck.aspx?i=D5N580&Body=1&Bass=1&Path=Neck
with SS frets and black blocks, ittls run about $300

just looking at bodies and not searching out parts yet, i'm estimating, to your specs, this bass will run about $700 USD +- $100.
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:59 pm

madmike wrote:
Yeah, that's easy ... short of the cost.

There are namebrands that are stated that drive the price up. While nordstrand, agular and fender are great products, there are other products with the same specs for 1/3 to 1/2 the price.

I've been using Tesla pickups ...they are awesome. For specific spec pickups I've been ripping apart and rewinding diesel pickups ... they are half decent. I would need to chek the specs but Tesla equivalent of the nordstroms would knock maybe $200 off the price.

Agular preamps are just overpriced. Again, they are good but not $200 gooder. Chek out audere audio.

Was looking at the bodies last night. A used (and not knowing what your getting or getting a mex sealed body or not knowing what's under the paint) FENDER 5st ash jazz body (whole bass) is about $600 to $800. Good luck to just find the body, or just finding the neck but this also involves buying all the parts I wont use. I could start with a cheap brand like SX. I might get lucky and find parts. I might just have Warmoth or mighty mite cut it ... cause then its exactly what we want at a reasonable price ... a Warmoth delux jazz swamp ash 5st is like $185. The neck would be like $200.

Ill go down the list and price everything out with the namebrand stuff and cheaper subbed in so you're get a general idea.

yeah Tesla!! some local bass builder in Indonesia was use them too, they gain good reputation here! wise choice mike.

for audere, honestly they were on my list, the forth item which had Z-mode J Deluxe Pre - Vol, Mid/Bal, Tre/Bass, Tone (JZ3D-VB-3B-T)
http://www.audereaudio.com/Scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=7

i prefer warmoth for the body and neck Smile
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:08 pm

madmike wrote:
wow! those fenders are $1800 to $1900 new.

and after all that searching, i still come back to this ....
http://www.warmoth.com/Showcase/ShowcaseItem.aspx?i=d270&Body=2&Bass=1&Path=Body
and a little steep but worth it ....
http://www.warmoth.com/Showcase/ShowcaseNeck.aspx?i=D5N580&Body=1&Bass=1&Path=Neck
with SS frets and black blocks, ittls run about $300

just looking at bodies and not searching out parts yet, i'm estimating, to your specs, this bass will run about $700 USD +- $100.

i agreed with warmoth body, and the neck with black dot inlay, i guess just leave it like that, the fingerboard with birdeye maple looks beautiful... so i guess the black block inlay and black binding is canceled Wink

notes for the neck, it was 21 frets and 1 3/4 nut width CMIIW, i required 24 frets and 1 7/8 nut width Smile

notes for the warmoth body, i love the ash grain, but it was top routed for J-J pickups, what u gonna do with the neck J pickup routing? b'coz u have to re-route to fit the split coil, for the bridge J pickup routing, it was no problemo since the humbucker musicman has wider routing, right? Smile


Last edited by SPYD3R #9 on Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:20 pm

Answer to both questions ... Warmoth makes whatever you want to order.

Swamp ash body with humbucker bridge rout and split p neck (sweet spot) rout. No problem.

Swamp ash body with no rout and ill do it ... no problem.

Maple / maple neck with black block inlays ... no problem. You need to decide what kind of frets you want ... I recommend stainless; play fast and last forever.

Problem ... Warmoth doesn't do neck binding. Ill look into it.
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:33 am

madmike wrote:
Maple / maple neck with black block inlays ... no problem. You need to decide what kind of frets you want ... I recommend stainless; play fast and last forever.

Problem ... Warmoth doesn't do neck binding. Ill look into it.

then stainless frets indeed, and nevermind about the black block inlay and binding, i don't want it anymore, that birdeye maple was great looking fingerboard cheers

and i found this, interesting...
http://www.fretlord.com/glowdotz.htm

this one is expensive..
http://www.simscustom.com/html/00leds.htm
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:46 am

I don't like PSA stickers. Cheap? You bet. These also glow and don't shine ... like glow in the dark toys or t-shirt. Not to mention the lifetime of a sticker in a high traffic area? I think it would actually lower the value of the instrument.

Those LED systems are cool ... and yes, expensive. Im sure I can install something like this and im sure I could do it cheaper ... just haven't done it yet.

An alternative is a company that makes a static adhesive flat strip that has LED markers. Ill have to go find it.
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:52 am

madmike wrote:
I don't like PSA stickers. Cheap? You bet. These also glow and don't shine ... like glow in the dark toys or t-shirt. Not to mention the lifetime of a sticker in a high traffic area? I think it would actually lower the value of the instrument..

i see, that's why they come cheap..

madmike wrote:
Those LED systems are cool ... and yes, expensive. Im sure I can install something like this and im sure I could do it cheaper ... just haven't done it yet.

An alternative is a company that makes a static adhesive flat strip that has LED markers. Ill have to go find it.

those just another "nice to have" things, do not be to hasty about it..

btw, i've found the tesla humbucker, but none of them made 5 str split coil
http://www.teslapickups.com/vr-mm5
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:29 am

Lemme do some research on that 5 string split p .......
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:14 am

use rail 5string split-p's Smile

100% even output all the way across and you can make the string spacing whatever you want.

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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:30 pm

Joe barden?

$600 for pickups?
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:58 pm

nobody and I mean nobody including JBE knows who made em for the 91-92 Fusion5 and Eliminator5 units..JAckson don't know JBE said they have no record, so only GOD knows who made em...

I was suggesting rails because string spacing is not a factor....
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:26 pm

Gotchya. I wonder if I could find similar dimarzios.

Or ken armstrongs.
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:17 pm

too bad I dont have a full set of these things over here cause if the pxr bass got built, i'd sell em.. i only have the J from a fusion left. the p was gone before i bought it.

probly jap or korean in-country made since somewhere in the catalog it would for sure say barden.if they were Smile
9.71k on the j
8.64 on the OEM i just measured
but it sure looks like any pic i ever saw of one


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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:52 pm

madmike wrote:
Gotchya. I wonder if I could find similar dimarzios.

Or ken armstrongs.

check out seymour duncan basslines spb-3, I emailed them, they said that they could make the 5str version for SPB-3 but the price will be higher...
found anything yet?

anyway, i found this thread by eric, its about wired the bass to stereo
http://basstremfanatics.forumotion.net/t542-bass-distortion-and-stereo-setups-101
so my question is, can this stereo wiring works on active preamps (an audere preamps for this case)?
it will going like having factory wired active preamps (an audere preamps for this case) added with SPST switch, can it be done? scratch

just pretend that it can be done, this layout stereo was cool!! u dont have to make another hole at the bass body, it can be done at the cavity cover

ps: it's photoshop mock-up
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:00 am

Bartolini 5 string split p an mm style are $137 and $127 respectively.

Not bad, good pickups, good preamps.

I want to try some delano. Got to do the use to euro conversion and find out how to buy this weekend.
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:37 am

Pretend. I like that. That's what I do before anything new.

Its a DPDT so it can run in stereo and mono and in theory (not drawing it out or wiring it) it should work. Wether you're want it or not I don't know either (lots of batteries, lots of output)

I did a billy Sheehan stereo bass. Its all passive and I love it.
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:42 am

Nordstrand has the exact pickups for the setup that your looking for .......

That's almost $300 in just pickups!
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:13 pm

madmike wrote:
Bartolini 5 string split p an mm style are $137 and $127 respectively.

Not bad, good pickups, good preamps.

I want to try some delano. Got to do the use to euro conversion and find out how to buy this weekend.

i found it cheaper at bestbassgear, check it out
http://www.bestbassgear.com/bartolini-p-bass-5-pickups.htm
http://www.bestbassgear.com/bartolini-dl5cbc-pickups.htm
http://www.bestbassgear.com/bartolini-preamps-ntmb.htm

Delano was great option, the Hybrid looks great, but the price was expensive
https://bestbassgear.3dcartstores.com/DelanoPickupsPMVC5-FEM2_p_1427.html
http://bestbassgear.3dcartstores.com/DelanoPickupsMC5-HY_p_360.html
http://bestbassgear.3dcartstores.com/DelanoPreampSonar-3-MSE_p_373.html

madmike wrote:
Pretend. I like that. That's what I do before anything new.

Its a DPDT so it can run in stereo and mono and in theory (not drawing it out or wiring it) it should work. Wether you're want it or not I don't know either (lots of batteries, lots of output)

I did a billy Sheehan stereo bass. Its all passive and I love it.
i've seen your billy sheehan rehab project, and yes that turn out great!! that where the ideas of stereo bass comes in my mind... great job madmike Wink

madmike wrote:
Nordstrand has the exact pickups for the setup that your looking for .......

That's almost $300 in just pickups!
yup! np5 + mm5.2
http://www.bestbassgear.com/nordstrand-pickups.htm#nordstrandp
http://www.bestbassgear.com/nordstrand-pickups.htm#nordstrandmm5
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PostSubject: Re: some question about kahler   Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:32 am

SPYD3R #9 wrote:
anyway, i found this thread by eric, its about wired the bass to stereo
http://basstremfanatics.forumotion.net/t542-bass-distortion-and-stereo-setups-101
so my question is, can this stereo wiring works on active preamps (an audere preamps for this case)?
it will going like having factory wired active preamps (an audere preamps for this case) added with SPST switch, can it be done? scratch

just pretend that it can be done, this layout stereo was cool!! u dont have to make another hole at the bass body, it can be done at the cavity cover

ps: it's photoshop mock-up

madmike wrote:
Pretend. I like that. That's what I do before anything new.

Its a DPDT so it can run in stereo and mono and in theory (not drawing it out or wiring it) it should work. Wether you're want it or not I don't know either (lots of batteries, lots of output)

I did a billy Sheehan stereo bass. Its all passive and I love it.

the main reason that both of the jack plates placed on the cavity cover is because i will mount a GK3B kits in the future


this is crazy, a whole new experience for me that make me so damn excited!! even the bass wasn't build yet!! and I still hope that i can afford it in the end!! Shocked
so it will be wired stereo, the stereo mode is where the 1st channel will be the clean channel is the neck P pickup, the 2nd channel will be the MM pickup that will serve all the multi-effect colored and also the GK3B-vbass/GR20 (in my wildest dream ever)
with the DPDT, it can goes mono or stereo, the mono mode will be just like regular wiring where both of the pickup is on

mono mode (run either active or passive mode) :
knob config will be : DPDT switch, stacked V/V (neck/bridge), series-parallel switch, Mid, Mid switch, stacked B/T, A/P switch, Passive tone control

stereo mode (only run in passive mode) :
1st channel = neck pickup (volume only) then goes to Radial Bassbone - 1st amp - FOH/mixer
2nd channel = bridge pickup (volume + tone) then goes to GK3B - Vbass/GR20 - (could be any signal processor) - 2nd amp - FOH/mixer

again, this is just my fantasy about how will it done, I had no idea if it will do gonna works, i just tried to described what's goin' on in my mind scratch


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