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EricHaven
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PostSubject: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:43 pm

The fact is that our drummer/engineer Doug has a really nice fiver that our guitarist Andy built for him several years ago, and I've been doing our latest recordings with it since it sounds so friggin' HUGE. So now I'm stuck in the mode of wanting to make the leap to a five-string. I'm almost to the point of having the capital to do this, but I have trepidation over this, since I always swore I wouldn't do such a thing. But honestly, I'm really enjoying playing on a fiver, and I haven't even touched my SX four-banger ever since I've started messing with Doug's bass.

So now I'm trying to decide if I should convert my SX to a fiver, or maybe instead invest in a new fiver. I've been really tempted by this:

http://www.rondomusic.com/web825bk.html

My thought is that I could probably swing this (with a LOT of creative financing), and then sell my Kahler 7410 to raise capital for a Kahler 7415.

I dunno....decisions, decisions. I HATE being poor! Sad

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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:51 am

The TB'ers love their Rondo units whether it says Douglas, SX, or Davison.

that's all I know about them beyond the typical return policy is good, the units themselves are not 1000.00 basses, but perfectly useable for many applications.

I'd sell you my Jackson Concert5, but 169.95 is better than 369.95 Smile
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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:20 am

Thanks, Mike. Cool

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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:24 pm

Wouldn't fancy putting a Kahler on that, room looks a of a tight squeeze.
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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:30 pm

BILL! Actually, I was going to send you a message about this! Wink I remember that you converted a four-string P into a fiver, right? I wanted to ask you about the string spacing, and also, where you got a nut that was for five strings, but would fit a standard P neck? Aren't fivers usually something like almost two inches across at the nut, but a standard P more like 1.75"?

The reason is that I have ripped apart my SX, and I am in the process of filling in the holes, and having Andy re-cut everything on his machines so that it turns out all nice and neat. Sooo....as I do this....I am seriously considering turning it into a fiver. I dunno yet. I have to see how the clean-up goes first, and I'm still researching the dimensions, and what parts I need to make it all work.

And yes, the tighter string spacing was a concern, but I figured that I might actually like the tighter spacing, since I play a lot of chords anyways.

I did ask Rondo music about the space between the pickup and bridge, and they told me that it's an inch. It would be close, but I think it would work. Also, if I did get that bass, I think I would move the bridge pickup to the neck position anyways, and drop a smaller humbucker into the same area, so there would be enough room for a Kahler. I even toyed with the idea of getting a Hipshot instead since it is not quite so long.

Any advice you can give me, Bill?

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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:03 pm

EricHaven wrote:
BILL! Actually, I was going to send you a message about this! Wink I remember that you converted a four-string P into a fiver, right? I wanted to ask you about the string spacing, and also, where you got a nut that was for five strings, but would fit a standard P neck? Aren't fivers usually something like almost two inches across at the nut, but a standard P more like 1.75"?

The reason is that I have ripped apart my SX, and I am in the process of filling in the holes, and having Andy re-cut everything on his machines so that it turns out all nice and neat. Sooo....as I do this....I am seriously considering turning it into a fiver. I dunno yet. I have to see how the clean-up goes first, and I'm still researching the dimensions, and what parts I need to make it all work.

And yes, the tighter string spacing was a concern, but I figured that I might actually like the tighter spacing, since I play a lot of chords anyways.

I did ask Rondo music about the space between the pickup and bridge, and they told me that it's an inch. It would be close, but I think it would work. Also, if I did get that bass, I think I would move the bridge pickup to the neck position anyways, and drop a smaller humbucker into the same area, so there would be enough room for a Kahler. I even toyed with the idea of getting a Hipshot instead since it is not quite so long.

Any advice you can give me, Bill?

I did indeed, and it too was an SX, funnily enough!

Right, to start with, the nut widths, modern P's are 1.625" width, certain vintage P's were 1.75", with five strings, 1.75" would be considered a thin nut(both my Roscoes, my SX Stingray, and another bass I have on oredr have these, it's my fave 5er nut), 1.875" is considered standard, Sadowsky, Warmoth and most others use this, and 2+" is condisered a wide 5.

Your SX, if it's like mine should be 1.625", it's pretty tight for 5 strings, but comfortable enough, of course your taste my differ.

As for where to get the nut, you can buy them unslotted, I made mine myself from scratch. I've heard of a guy who does this, and uses a 6er nut from Carvin, and cuts the slot for the C string off.

String spacing at the bridge, I have about 14.5mm, that's all I can get with the 4 string Kahler I have, I think you could get 16mm, with a wider bridge.
14.5mm is playable enough for me, as I'm used to tight spacing, but I would prefer it at least a bit wider.

It's definatly a situation where it'd be best to try one before doing it, but of course, that's not possible. I would think an Ibanez 5er is the closest thing in mass production to a 5er bass with a 4 string neck, so may be worth noodling about on one of those, keeping in mind that both the nut and bridge would be slightly tighter.


If you wanna move the pickup anyway, I suppose that Douglas would be fine too, the Hipshot would also be interesting, but of course is a tonne of work, which would suck if you don't like it as much as a Kahler.
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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:56 pm

thats a really nice bass for $170. i'de like to buy one if it wasnt for the gold hardware.

and furreal ... i'm at the point where i have no desire for a 5.

its pretty tight for a rear seated saddle kahler (XX10 models), but an old school forward saddle might do it ... look at all that realestate behind the bridge! anyhow ... i had no problems opening up the pickup cavity on the ibanez to move it 1/4" forward so, in my opinion ... more work but no big deal.

you know me eric ... adjustments, mods and franken-basses; i'm all about it. converting a 4 to a 5 ... go for it! and yes, i agree, your best bet would probably be to custom file the slots in a nut. if your gonna go that far, than get the best nut material to your taste ... i think i would go for some bone. never had one ... but i think its cool. stewmac has some nice file sets ... but i'm a big fan of craftsman too.

keep us up to date.
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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:06 pm

Why do you think Doug's 5er sounds so beefy? Would you be able to get the same quality of sound/playability out of a Rondo instrument? I got a fortune cookie once that told me "there is no substitute for that which is genuine," a saying which I am finding to be truer and truer every day.
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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:04 am

Well....I am a little embarrassed to say this, but the thing with Doug's bass that makes it sound so enormous is that it has an active EMG in the neck position.

Basically, after hearing me and my tone with the stereo/distortion thing, Doug decided that he wanted to be able to get that same sound when he noodles at home. He's actually a decent bass player, and he even writes some of our music on guitar. He's simpler than Andy or myself, but he does write some heavy rhythms. Anyways, Andy took the bass that he had made for Doug several years ago, and added an old eight-string pickup he had made for another guitar. This became the distortion channel output. He then took the existing active system, and made that the clean channel output.

Heck, forget my blabbering. Let me just show you Guys the bass.

Andy and me recording at our studio:









Andy chose to build the bass using a simple wooden bridge, and it works really well. And in the last shot, you can see the custom eight-string humbucker that Andy built. Yes, he made that pickup from the ground up. And that guitar that Andy is holding is his latest seven-string creation, built over a few weeks in his own shop.

So why not encourage Doug to throw a trem on it? Simple. Take a look at the headstock in the third picture. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:16 am

So back to my conundrum. Rolling Eyes

I wanted to fill-in the tuning key holes on my SX neck so that I could re-drill for the fiver keys to place the string angles straight, but the wood putty isn't taking so well. And the story with the body is even worse, as I wanted to try and bring the body back to an un-cut piece so that I could have Andy-re-route everything so it didn't come out like my own usual hack jobs do. Again, the putty isn't taking. The holes are simply too large. I also thought about cutting wood inserts, and gluing them in.

So this morning, my head is spinning. Cost of a new bass....refurbish my old one....modify the old one....have to get new keys and trem....the spacing issues....the putty isn't working....buy another body....no, won't work because still have neck issue....what to do?

So I think I have decided to do something drastic here. I have made up my mind that I want to make the leap to a fiver full-time, and since my SX has suffered at my hands, I don't think it's a good candidate to modify. So I think I am going to completely clean-up the neck, and throw it on eBay. I am also going to cut loose my Kahler 7410. In this way, if they both sell, I would at least have enough for that Douglas bass. This way I will, at the very least, have a fiver in my hands at all times.

The trem is another issue, but one that WILL be addressed in good time. No matter if I decide to go with either a Kahler 7415, or a Hipshot fiver, they both cost around $200, and with enough creative financing, I should be able to do that relatively soon. Routing won't be an issue, even if I go with the Hipshot, since Andy assured me that he would do this for me on his machines.

Any advice here, Guys? I'm really looped on this one! Sad

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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:21 am

oh here we go again with the headstock stuff.....
looks like all the strings are fairly straight out of the nut on that thing.
however.......do you ALWAYS forget this?

your description "wonky angles"



.

p.s. I found a black 7410, so the gold one will be for sale soon. 100 bucks + or - a couple dollars to you guys here if you want it since that is what I paid for it and i'll post it in the for sale area as soon as I get the black one..

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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:55 am

Yeah I know, Mike. I wondered if you were going to chime in on this issue! Laughing

I understand the headstock string angle thing isn't a problem for many, but remember that I divebomb pretty extremely far down, and every time I've tried to make it work on a bass that had bad angles, the bass always came back out of tune. I've tried so many times to make it work, that it's simply a pain in the arse for me. It's so much easier to make it work on a bass that has straight angles. Also, the picture doesn't really tell the story, as the extreme bend is much easier to see if you look at the headstock straight on.

Maybe it's just my paranoia at work. Rolling Eyes

How far down are your Kahlers set to drop, Mike? Mine is set to drop my E string over an octave to where it starts to flop around on the neck.

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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:21 am

the crappy bar is not long enough to flop the strings before it hits the body/knobs, but if i use a screwdriver it goes to flop and will just recoil back to in-tune status every time.
bend ups i get paranoid about snapping the strings but i can pull up a good couple steps before I squint, waiting for a string to snap.

you may be 100% correct, that this particular headstock setup on the charvels ( which DO have a different headstock than the jacksons ) with wonky angles may be the ONLY one that will work like that, because CB's Kelly wont stay in tune period with his style headstock.

I wished I had a spare charvel to let you use for 6 months....lol but the only kahlered one is the lefty at the moment. I did say I should sell off the gold trem, but you know what will happen, I'll look at it and say ...hmm, should I or shouldn't I.... drunken
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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:17 am

By any chance, are you in the market for an older chrome 7410?

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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:19 pm

no chrome, unless the price is right cause then I'll have gold and chrome spares and have to sell something...I WISH I could find an old 2410 for cheap or trade Sad

i finally found out why my 7410 saddles are almost all the way down to get my action to where i like it...the damn frame on the 7410 sits a smidge higher than the 2410 did on my black bass.

I'd sell off the 7410's today if i knew where a black 2410 was...I wanted to trade CB but he now wants a Fender and is selling the Kelly off so he said no.


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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:20 pm

EricHaven wrote:
So back to my conundrum. Rolling Eyes

I wanted to fill-in the tuning key holes on my SX neck so that I could re-drill for the fiver keys to place the string angles straight, but the wood putty isn't taking so well. And the story with the body is even worse, as I wanted to try and bring the body back to an un-cut piece so that I could have Andy-re-route everything so it didn't come out like my own usual hack jobs do. Again, the putty isn't taking. The holes are simply too large. I also thought about cutting wood inserts, and gluing them in.

So this morning, my head is spinning. Cost of a new bass....refurbish my old one....modify the old one....have to get new keys and trem....the spacing issues....the putty isn't working....buy another body....no, won't work because still have neck issue....what to do?

So I think I have decided to do something drastic here. I have made up my mind that I want to make the leap to a fiver full-time, and since my SX has suffered at my hands, I don't think it's a good candidate to modify. So I think I am going to completely clean-up the neck, and throw it on eBay. I am also going to cut loose my Kahler 7410. In this way, if they both sell, I would at least have enough for that Douglas bass. This way I will, at the very least, have a fiver in my hands at all times.

The trem is another issue, but one that WILL be addressed in good time. No matter if I decide to go with either a Kahler 7415, or a Hipshot fiver, they both cost around $200, and with enough creative financing, I should be able to do that relatively soon. Routing won't be an issue, even if I go with the Hipshot, since Andy assured me that he would do this for me on his machines.

Any advice here, Guys? I'm really looped on this one! Sad

Honestly, if you're determined to move to the 5er full time, I'd work hard on getting the instrument first and foremost. Then worry about the trem, the only question is, can you manage tremless for a while?


For my own curiosity, what tuning are you using with the 5er?
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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:35 pm

Mike, I listed my 7410 on eBay for $140 plus $5 for shipping. It's one of the very first 7410's they made, so it's exactly the same as an older 2410. All brass and steel parts, and the longer trem arm. I'm also including an extra spring, the allen wrenches, and the booklet that has the mounting template.

I've also thrown up the neck from my SX for $45, and the DiMarzio Model J for $25.

I totally agree, Bill. I had to wrestle with the notion of going tremless for a while, but as you said, I decided that it would be better to get the bass first to spend time with it before throwing a trem into it. Yes, it will be struggle going without a trem, but in the long run I think it will be worth it.

To answer your question about the tuning, I've been playing Doug's bass tuned to B-D-A-D-G. That way, I have the open low B and D strings (which works well, since most of our music is in either B or D), easy access to a low E, and no new learning curve on the top three strings. Plus, it makes for easier chords, since the octaves and fifths are now closer (at least, it appears that way to me). Andy has been playing his custom seven string almost exclusively, and he has been tuning B-D-A-D-G-B-E, which corresponds well to my bass tuning.

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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:39 pm

i had to go back and look at that douglas again.

very nice bass for $170 (guts still churning over the gold hardware). i think this would make a great candidate for experimentation ... lotsa instrument top real estate, 3/2 per side headstock w/ straight angles, 24 fret neck. worst case scenarios ... the pickups and/or preamp is poopie, it plays like a plank, it has no sustain (it is only 8.5 lbs ... not that more weight gives more sustain, mass does. i've had light basses that sustain great and vice-versa), or in your experimentation you kill it. all of these are no major deal because you can either upgrade the poopie parts or if you kill it, just fireplace it ... it was only $170. not that i have $170 to burn ... but i have gotten fed up and just scrapped stuff (anyone want an ibanez ergodyne scrapheap?).

personally ... i think you shud hold out, save up your nickles and honor yourself with a top of the line instrument ... wether thats a commercial line (i know you like the yamaha BB's, me too) or something you build or have built ... i love my warmoth and i'm glad i spent the money to build it out of quality parts.

is it a matter of you want it now cause you want a fiver with a trem now or because you need it for gigs and recording? if your just being impatient, i think you shud be patient, save your money and honor yourself with a better instrument.

i'm doing this with amps right now. the cabinets i'm building are awesome but the amps i have show their limitations immediately when plugged into them. i'm saving my money and buying nothing short of mesa or ashdown for now on. perhaps in the future i'll really treat myself and get a vintage hand wired dealey like swamp or electric.

lastly ... that 5er with the wooden bridge ... dont loose that wooden bridge. i had a guild ls with hardwood saddles and have never been able to reproduce that particular tone. i think wooden saddles and bridges are super cool and have their own place that isnt heard or used enuff. that is a real cool looking bass with that big honkin humbucker @ the bridge and a cool body style. i dont know if i'de change it.
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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:45 pm

EricHaven wrote:
Mike, I listed my 7410 on eBay for $140 plus $5 for shipping. It's one of the very first 7410's they made, so it's exactly the same as an older 2410. All brass and steel parts, and the longer trem arm. I'm also including an extra spring, the allen wrenches, and the booklet that has the mounting template.

I've also thrown up the neck from my SX for $45, and the DiMarzio Model J for $25.

I totally agree, Bill. I had to wrestle with the notion of going tremless for a while, but as you said, I decided that it would be better to get the bass first to spend time with it before throwing a trem into it. Yes, it will be struggle going without a trem, but in the long run I think it will be worth it.

To answer your question about the tuning, I've been playing Doug's bass tuned to B-D-A-D-G. That way, I have the open low B and D strings (which works well, since most of our music is in either B or D), easy access to a low E, and no new learning curve on the top three strings. Plus, it makes for easier chords, since the octaves and fifths are now closer (at least, it appears that way to me). Andy has been playing his custom seven string almost exclusively, and he has been tuning B-D-A-D-G-B-E, which corresponds well to my bass tuning.

Here's hoping they all sell quickly for you!

Interesting tuning, and one I've used just a bit, there's quite a few songs I love that need drop D, and I see what you mean on the chords, too.

As often, I drop the B to A, well Ab, as I'm almost always down a half step to start, and that can work well too, but you loose the open B, which seems to be part of the reason for this jump.

Good luck with it all man!
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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:26 pm

Thanks, Bill! I've got my fingers crossed!

Funny that you mentioned the drop A tuning, as Doug has written a couple of songs like that. Not anything we will use in the band, but more like interesting experiments. Since we also tune down half a step, this makes that low A into more of a low G#, and the notes sound so low, that they don't read too well upon playback. But they do make the room shake in a really cool way! Laughing

MadMike, I totally appreciate your sentiments, but the fact is that I won't have the capital I need for something more name brand for quite some time. One day, yes. But not anytime soon. In the mean time, I have read numerous positive reviews of the Douglas bass, and I am already familiar with SX's quality, so I'm pretty comfortable with the notion. I totally agree with the thing about the gold hardware, but since I am going to replace the bridge with a trem, I'll make it either chrome or black, and I will change the knobs to match. The keys? Well....I can't imagine that it would be too difficult to buff off that gold tone, since it's a fake gold anyways. In the mean time, I'll just ignore the color of the hardware.

About the pickups. My goal is to rip out the active board, have Andy help me move the bridge pickup to the neck, and throw an eight-string guitar humbucker into the bridge position. Andy made the pickup in Doug's bass, and he said making another would be easy to do. The bloody thing specs out at 18K!

So what about using that stock Douglas pickup in passive mode? It turns out that a guy on TalkBass owns one of those exact same basses, and he didn't care for the active tone, so he pulled the pickup, and checked it on the meter. 16.7K! Yikes! The DiMarzio X2N-7 is only around 14K! So I don't think output will be an issue, and the guy said that doing so dramatically changed the sound.

As far as the wooden bridge on the fiver, the bass belongs to Doug, so I have no say as to what happens to it. That being said, I think he's already done everything he wants to it, and it's Andy that does any mods for him anyways, since it was Andy who built the thing to begin with. Andy crafted that bridge by hand, and I think he's done so on a couple of other custom builds. He is truly a master luthier! This is why I am going to have Andy do all of the digging on my new basses, since he will make the work turn out perfectly. Cool

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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:02 pm

EricHaven wrote:
Thanks, Bill! I've got my fingers crossed!

Funny that you mentioned the drop A tuning, as Doug has written a couple of songs like that. Not anything we will use in the band, but more like interesting experiments. Since we also tune down half a step, this makes that low A into more of a low G#, and the notes sound so low, that they don't read too well upon playback. But they do make the room shake in a really cool way! Laughing

Yup, that's about how low I have it too, I usually play in Ab-Db-Ab-Db-Gb, B-Gb(same as the first, without the drops), and Bb-Db-Ab-Db-Gb, and that low Ab/G# rattles things, though I'm getting it to read well enough, since I'm not dosed in low end, and using a pretty specialized 5er.

I've been experimenting with a higher range lately, and my next axe will be halfway between the two, gonna be tuned D-G-C-F-Bb, but with a Hipshot for Drop C, so, it'll be high tuned, but still able to reach almost as low as standard 5er tuning.

EricHaven wrote:
About the pickups. My goal is to rip out the active board, have Andy help me move the bridge pickup to the neck, and throw an eight-string guitar humbucker into the bridge position. Andy made the pickup in Doug's bass, and he said making another would be easy to do. The bloody thing specs out at 18K!

So what about using that stock Douglas pickup in passive mode? It turns out that a guy on TalkBass owns one of those exact same basses, and he didn't care for the active tone, so he pulled the pickup, and checked it on the meter. 16.7K! Yikes! The DiMarzio X2N-7 is only around 14K! So I don't think output will be an issue, and the guy said that doing so dramatically changed the sound.


Would it be possible for Andy to make you two of them 18k 8er pickups, might work better to have a matched set, maybe?
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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:40 pm

Maybe. But since each pickup is driving a different signal, I'm not sure if that would be advantageous or not. I want my low/clean channel to be powerful, but really clear. And of course, I want my distortion channel to burn up my amp! Laughing And with Doug's bass, we've had a ton of great luck dialing in some truly killer tones, and his is wired with an active EMG for the low/clean channel, and one of Andy's custom eight-string guitar humbuckers for the distortion channel. They are two different animals, but they seem to work well together.

Heck, I just checked my eBay selling. I had listed my Kahler 7410 for $140, my SX bass neck for $45, and my DiMarzio Model J for $25. The Kahler is almost perfect, the SX neck is in great shape, but the DiMarzio is a little banged up.

So which item sells first?

The banged up DiMarzio! Go figure! Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:56 pm

Awww....CRAP! More decisions:

http://musiciansdiscountwarehouse.com/new5stelbagu.html

Mike! This is YOUR fault! You had to go and mention Davison, didn't you?

OK....only kidding about that. Truth be told, I have been looking at another Davison fiver on eBay, and more digging on the web revealed that they are also really well made for the price.

Awrighty....so here's the throwdown.

Douglas fiver: $169 plus $22 shipping. Total cost: $191.
Upside: Has full size humbucker.
Downside: Body shape is a little weird, gold hardware is ugly.

Davison fiver: $167 with FREE shipping.
Upside: Cheaper, all black hardware, body is made of alder (which I prefer), black headstock.
Downside: Two single coil J's that need changing.

I showed both basses to Linda, and gave her the side-by-side comparison. She didn't hesitate, and pointed to the Davison saying "this one by far".

More opinions? I really need your input here Guys!

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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:34 pm

Oh! One more plus about the Davison. More than ample room for any type of trem I want, as well as plenty of room for pickup upgrades.

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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:39 pm

Davidson, I'd say, if you prefer it overall, which it seems you do.

I know of one good fix for them J pickups.

Some quick work taking a knife to two of the tabs on each J pickup, some super glue, sandpaper, and a bit of soldering, and you get....



...a big loud humbucker! Very Happy


Headstock looks more Kahler compatible too...
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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:43 pm

Oh, and yeah, I do see why you want two very different pickups, the bi-amping always slips my mind.
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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:14 pm

It amazes me how much you and I are on the same page sometimes, Bill. Cool

Years ago, I took two DiMarzio Model J's, and put them together exactly as you showed. I actually gave it a name: Quadbucker. I reckoned this was accurate since it had four coils. The thing had HUGE output, but was also muddy as heck. My dad helped me with it, and I have sometimes thought about doing the design again in some more marketable form. Of course, like most of my ideas, this idea fell by the wayside.

I had a conversation tonight with our drummer Doug, and he told me that he helped Andy build the eight-string humbucker that now resides in his bass, and that he would gladly help me build one. So it is looking more and more like pickups won't be an issue.

Oh....I dunno Guys....that Davison is REALLY looking more and more desirable to me. So much more than the Douglas. And it's not too far away! I can actually DO this!

OK....calming down now....but I still fell really good about this.

It's weird, since I was so vocal about never playing a fiver, and yet, here I am making the transition.

Sounds like a major surgical operation, doesn't it? Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:10 am

Uh, I think I have some bad news for you...... Bartolini make Quadbuckers, even call 'em the same name, or quad-coils.... of course, not with each coil as heavily wound as the Dimarzio split coils would be, as you say, mud. It's actually what I have in both of my Roscoes.

Seeing as you have Andy and Doug's help, with pickups and modding, definatly agree that the Davidson looks the right path, plus, with the savings on price, you'll be back in a trem faster!



Oh, and we'll have to show you all the clubs for, uh.... our kind..... Wink
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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:46 am

ok Douglas, Davison......but ROGUE/Brice <<< you didn't mention that names for the 5'er cheap bass....
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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:09 am

Darkstrike wrote:
Uh, I think I have some bad news for you...... Bartolini make Quadbuckers, even call 'em the same name, or quad-coils.... of course, not with each coil as heavily wound as the Dimarzio split coils would be, as you say, mud. It's actually what I have in both of my Roscoes.

Seeing as you have Andy and Doug's help, with pickups and modding, definatly agree that the Davidson looks the right path, plus, with the savings on price, you'll be back in a trem faster!



Oh, and we'll have to show you all the clubs for, uh.... our kind..... Wink

Oh well! I'll let Bartolini keep their idea! Laughing

Yeah, I think the Davison is looking more like it for me.

Um....what exactly do you mean by the "clubs for our kind"?

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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:24 am

see .... good thing I didn't sell you my jackson HB 4 string pup. it is poles and not a rail so it would not work as a 5er Sad Razz

and i forgot to mention I had a Davison flyingV for a couple years, in 2008 it was 125.00+ship beyond the cheap pups it was perfect in every way.

out of the 3 the hamer sounded the best even before I added that yellow dimarzio, the dean was just plain s***, and the Davison played the best but I couldn't keep it because the knobs always got in the way so I didn't bother modding it and keeping it.


god I just realized that this pic is almost 3 years old !!!!
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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:56 am

EricHaven wrote:
Um....what exactly do you mean by the "clubs for our kind"?


Just a joke, you were mentioning transitions, and major operations, I thought it sounded like a sex change operation...... hence the special clubs. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:41 am

Ah-ha! I suspected something along those lines! Laughing

BTW Mike, I did take a look at the SX Brice line, and they do make some really gorgeous basses. But again, they start at close to $300, and like most everything I do, economics are driving the way.

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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:47 pm

Well you know i'm VERY happy with my rondo agile interceptor Very Happy I don't think that you'll find a better bass than the rondo's for the price range you're in.

P.S you look like a heavy metal geddy lee.
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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:14 pm

yeah ... i catch your drift eric ... economics suk. why cant i just order one wal mach II bass and one alembic triple omega, have mesa build me an entire new two sided rig, get every EHX pedal they got, two new kahlers please and 100 packs of rotos and then i can call it quits???

what did i just rack up there ... $30K ??? Sad

that would pay off the balance of my mortgage!

i agree eric ... i like the body of the davison better too. i like the headstock of the douglas tho ... but functionally, the headstock on the davison is fine.

by looking at this, i think your thinking more along the lines of what i was trying to suggest to you ... and the reasons i built my warmoth.

truth be told, mexicano p body + warmoth neck + dimarzio and economy pickups + pickguard, screws, tuners, knobs, pots and wire ... i got a $1500 bass for around $375, not including the cost of the kahler that i had. there are options ... even affordable ones. the davidson and douglas are probably the same quality instrument that your gonna basicly do the same thing to (make it rockin!). definately get the one you like better. i dont see any disadvantage to you buying either ... seeing that your gonna rebuild it anyhow.

now get to making some sawdust! Twisted Evil

question ... why is that you prefer the alder to the ash???
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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:22 pm

tekkentool wrote:
P.S you look like a heavy metal geddy lee.

Un....thanks....I think.... Laughing

Just kidding you, TK. I've often heard everything from Jesus to John Lennon, but never Geddy Lee. Now if only I could play like him!

I hear you, MadMike. I have always felt like you can do well spending less on a bass that has a sound neck and body, and upgrading the weak points, instead of dropping a ton of cash on a more expensive bass. This, of course, has more to do with the fact that I usually don't have a lot of cash, so I might fell differently if I did.

Why do I prefer alder over ash? Um....I dunno, really. I think it has to do with the fact that every single bass I have ever owned consisted of an alder body, and a maple neck with a rosewood fingerboard. I've played basses with ash bodies, and they don't feel quite right in my hands. I know that sounds crazy, but for what it's worth, there it is.

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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:05 pm

i ask because eventually ... i'm gonna carve my own body. the two common planks, 26X18X2, are alder and ash. alder is cheaper. ash is prettier (because i will stain and clearcoat it). i was always thinking i'de go with a piece of swamp ash (nice reticulated dark grain tones), but now that you mention it ... i'll hafta do some research and trials.

and the same question arises if i decide to get that warmoth explorer body.

http://www.warmoth.com/Bass/Options/WoodDescriptions.aspx

but anyhow ... i'm glad you found an instrument you like better for the price.
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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:03 am

I think doing the research first is an excellent idea, MadMike. And of course, I'm not trying to suggest that alder is superior to ash, only that I always seem to like the way basses sound and feel that are made of alder. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:24 am

I say get a plank of particleboard and use that for your project... tons of beautiful grain in a slice of that stuff....
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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:33 am

i'm pulling a buncha splintering pine floor boards in my house from the room thats gonna be my man cave today. get some wood glue and clamps and carve a body outta that!

i mean ... i'm poor too. how can i afford to throw wood away?

(no really ... its trash)

i got some time today. i think i'm gonna go hit sam ash, GC (my fav) and george's, and try out this "feeling" you got eric ... cuz furreal ... i've never been able to tell the diff by just playing a bass. never thought to look and feel from the point of what wood it was made from. its always just been ... i like this bass / i dont like this one.
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PostSubject: Re: So now I'm flirting with fivers   Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:10 pm

Honestly MadMike, I think it really boils down to personal preference. I don;t know why I like alder bodies, only that I do.

I truly mean this. I can't really say what it is about alder bodies that I like, only that they feel....oh, I dunno....familiar to my hands, maybe? I'm really not trying to be vague here. It's just that there is something comfortable about the combination of an alder body, maple neck, and rosewood fingerboard to me. I really can't put it into words that are good enough.

I remember reading an interview with Billy Sheehan where he was trying to describe some preference he had for something or another. Honestly, I don't recall what it was, but what he said about it really stuck with me. He said: "It's like, there's something going on here, but I'm not really sure what it is".

I wish we all had the cash we need/want to get everything we need for our bass setups, because then it would be easy. The fact that we don't means that we have to do a lot of research to get the most out of our limited funds.

Speaking of research, I am feeling really good about getting me a Davison. I have found nothing but positive, and even, glowing revues about the exact same bass I want. Sure, the electronics are the weak point, as they usually are in low-end basses, but so what? I would wind up changing them anyways, so no big loss there.

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