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 The "shred is dead" mentality and the "no feeling" protester.

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tekkentool

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PostSubject: The "shred is dead" mentality and the "no feeling" protester.    Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:20 am

I can't look at a "betcha can't play this" video or a demonstration of an advanced guitar technique without seeing Certainly more than a few dissenting comments about "shred guitar" and in particular how the artist themselves have no soul. The most common argument i see against it is that fast playing has no "emotions" I'm personally of the belief that tempo is quite important for setting the mood and emotion of a piece, paganini was popular for a reason.

This sometimes borders on the insane, and comes in a full circle, and this person now "sucks"

The most insane example i've seen is a member of harmony central smugly asserting that rusty cooley probably "couldn't even play a simple blues lick"

To those uninitiated to rusty cooley.



this man is a complete technical master of the instrument, extremely quick alternate picking, easily one of the best legato techniques in the planet, can blaze out string skipping arps, Strong vibrato, and he's a great rhythm player too.

The very concept that simply because he does have the ability to play that quickly means he suddenly is incapable of playing blues licks?
I'm sorry but your precious blues licks aren't the uncompromisable tower of extreme difficulty. they're the exact opposite, why does someone suck for not playing like it's the 1960's? ( sorry blues fans)

I suppose i'm still unsure as to why the backlash is so strong from these people, I'm certainly not a fan of drone music at all, really i'm not going to tell them they're all tasteless and have no soul though?

I've posted similar diatribe on other forums to guage the result from different communities. I know certain folks around here are big fans of shredding (mike, eric Wink)

So what are your thoughts on this whole shredding is sucking concept?
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PostSubject: Re: The "shred is dead" mentality and the "no feeling" protester.    Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:01 pm

OK....not that my two-cents mean anything here, but here are my thoughts on the subject. I always try and see both sides of the coin, so it might sound like I'm being indecisive here. I'm not. I'm trying to be diplomatic.

In the first instructional video from Billy Sheehan, he stated that "speed for speed's sake is pointless", and I could not agree more. Personally, I think the whole thing with shredding is that too many players fall back on it too easily. True, it is a valid, and sometimes, incredible method of expression, but it's also one of the most abused methods of playing.

That being said, who gives a rats arse what other people's opinions are? I've always said that there is no such thing as "bad" music. It's a personal choice. You like what you like, and you don't like what you don't like. If someone enjoys shredding, then that's what they enjoy, and who is anyone else to say that it's "wrong" or "bad"?

Yngwie Malmsteen is a classic example. The dude has proven a million times over that he can play the crap out of a guitar at high speed, so for me, it's become a little old. Now, I will readily acknowledge that he is absolutely incredible, and I happen to really like a lot of his music. But he's already proven he can shred like no one else, and continues to do so a lot.

Again, if that's your cup of tea, then it matters not what I, or anyone else thinks.

I've put up with players griping about my approach to bass for years and years, but I'm not about to change it just to suit them. The way I see it, they're the one with the problem. If they don't enjoy what I do, then they don't have to listen to it. I'm more about enjoying what I do, and sharing that with those that enjoy it as well. The same can be said for any artist, or any listener, for that matter.

Being able to play blues licks, or any other style, does not the artist make. Feeling is also subjective. If someone is moved to tears by the Ramones, then who cares what anyone else thinks? My opinion is that if music moves you, then it is good.

I could care less if the most schooled of classically-trained prog fusion players stepped on their soapbox to declare bands like AC/DC or the Sex Pistols as "sucking", because they would be wrong. If you enjoy these bands, then you consider them to be good. True, they might not be the most technically gifted of players, but yet again, it's all about the music, and how it affects the listener, and NO ONE has the absolute authority to declare something as "good" or "bad". It's personal opinion, and nothing more.

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amimbari

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PostSubject: Re: The "shred is dead" mentality and the "no feeling" protester.    Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:17 pm

well Eric typed a lot more than I will but I'll highlight some of his stuff:

who gives a rats arse what other people's opinions are? << for real
Yngwie Malmsteen is a classic example. The dude has proven a million times over that he can play the crap out of a guitar at high speed, so for me, it's become a little old << for real
Billy Sheehan, he stated that "speed for speed's sake is pointless" << for real

nothing about guitar shredding is any different than a highspeed piano/violin/flute/woodwind/brass...etc solo, so who cares about one style stringed instrument.

( I love the playing, and will always be impressed on how well they can do their thing, but people have been shredding on stringed instruments for centuries before electric guitars came out )

p.s. his picking hand when he sweeps looks like me so I must be doing something right Smile

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PostSubject: Re: The "shred is dead" mentality and the "no feeling" protester.    Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:49 pm

top speed screaming shred vs. overdriven tube soulful blues.

i like both.

why do people like this need to go at each other like that? i can think of ten pop and adult contempo acts that they should be bashing in ten seconds. ... and yeah; i say that because i hate that stuff.

its all the same arguement.
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PostSubject: Re: The "shred is dead" mentality and the "no feeling" protester.    Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:38 am

Quote :
That being said, who gives a rats arse what other people's opinions are? I've always said that there is no such thing as "bad" music. It's a personal choice. You like what you like, and you don't like what you don't like. If someone enjoys shredding, then that's what they enjoy, and who is anyone else to say that it's "wrong" or "bad"?


This is why I love this place- This is so true. My feeling is that I judge anything buy how well it is done for the genre it is. However, one thing that I can't tolerate is someone singing out of key, it just hurts my ears, yet I remember listening to my daughters orchestra years back and they were all out pitch so it sounded really creepy, like something from a Tim Burton movie, which made it cool to me. Always exceptions to everything, maybe not for you but does not make it invalid.



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PostSubject: Re: The "shred is dead" mentality and the "no feeling" protester.    Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:59 am

in the last 10 years of bands and auditioning 100's of "vocalists" only 2 could actually sing in and stay in key. i dont understand ... i think as a bassist, i can tell by ear what key something is in and reproduce it vocally (if its in my range). i think the difference is for a "vocalist" to separate what they hear (if they are actually listening) with what it is their ego is telling them they shud be hearing. if they wanna sing what their ego is telling them they shud be singing ... then they shud write their own music to sing to ... i guess.

either way ... i agree. if anyone ever tells you that you cant sing in key, PLEASE KNOCK IT OFF.
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PostSubject: Re: The "shred is dead" mentality and the "no feeling" protester.    Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:05 am

Funny to that a vocalist is another instrument in the band and I don't see why they can't take vocal lessons like we took instrument lessons.

Also, today with digital technology most music is auto tuned so you really notice when a singer is even slightly off key. I saw Katie Perry live at Warped tour a few years back and she was so off key the whole set, it was painful. We had to leave it was that bad.

If your a singer that is the one requirement- sing on key
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PostSubject: Re: The "shred is dead" mentality and the "no feeling" protester.    Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:56 am

ok since this is turning to vocalists let me put 2 cents into the discussion:


I'm one of those retards who has perfect pitch, and for 40 years I hear harmony even if there is none when a melody line is played or sung. I hear EVERYTHING out of tune and just block it out as going to hear a symphony with 50 instruments all out to each other, as minimal as it is...I block it out and enjoy the show.

I have no vibrato in my voice..straight and true notes only, which makes it supereasy for me to harmonize with myself. OTOH, I have worked with plenty of good singers who were just not meant to sing with others. ( like the one we have now for code whiskey ), he couldn't "HOLD" a straight note to save his life, but he is a hell of a good singer.

so what we had to do was modify our songs to eliminate a lot of cool dueling 2 person harmony because it sounds like crap me singing perfectly on pitch and him not Sad

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tekkentool

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PostSubject: Re: The "shred is dead" mentality and the "no feeling" protester.    Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:11 am

amimbari wrote:

I have no vibrato in my voice..straight and true notes only,
wow that sounds pretty gay actually, none at all?

On the subject of vocals, do you think there is such a thing as "vocal wanking?"
I mean if this isn't just a straight display of technical talent then what is?


What about ian gillians non stop vocal work out on child in time?
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PostSubject: Re: The "shred is dead" mentality and the "no feeling" protester.    Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:36 am

gay?..well let's say if you heard one of my multi-part harmony originals...ya you would think a girl is singing the high parts....
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PostSubject: Re: The "shred is dead" mentality and the "no feeling" protester.    Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:55 am

I would think that the singer from DirEn Grey takes the cake for vocal wankery & I love it!
If your going to wank, than go balls out I say.

This guy takes vocals to a really weird level.


Everybody sing along
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PostSubject: Re: The "shred is dead" mentality and the "no feeling" protester.    Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:06 am

DirEn Grey? i actually like it. at least he's screaming in the "key" of the music and doing some different things making it "vocal". some do sing in this style and actually make it good.

i think i'm just getting old. my experience in bands over the last 10 years has been doing vocal auditions. these cats keep showing up and screaming everything bloody murder all in one key and usually out of it.

look, i get it, your angry because life is hard ... i dont feel like hearing your angry crying masked in growley screaming bloody murder. if your all looking for guidance ... philip anselmo.

if you show up for an audition and just start screaming whatever to the music i wrote ... get out.

i just dont know who told everyone that this is how to sing? god ... its getting old. gimmie a break.

doesnt anyone sing like robert plant, freddie mercury, maynard james keenan anymore? for thrash and hardcore ... i dont think anyone needs to go over the top of dave mustane's vocals (cuz that sounds awesome!).

kill, kill ... kill the cookie monster!
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tekkentool

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PostSubject: Re: The "shred is dead" mentality and the "no feeling" protester.    Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:39 pm

madmike wrote:

doesnt anyone sing like robert plant, freddie mercury, maynard james keenan anymore? for thrash and hardcore ... i dont think anyone needs to go over the top of dave mustane's vocals (cuz that sounds awesome!).
It's probably a good thing that people don't sing like freddie and plant anymore, both were notorious for destroying their own vocal chords faster than dave destroyed heroin.
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PostSubject: Re: The "shred is dead" mentality and the "no feeling" protester.    Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:31 pm

everyone nas their unique and interesting style differences I have to say I would obviously NOT like some of them just like anyone.

TEK
here's a little sample of me getting 1/2baked and noodling with my own interesting style.

the first one is a real random jam I did when I was into the backstreet boys, but always laughed because they were studio musicians and never really "created" anything they sang themselves.

and this second is just 1/2 baked retarded....


the second one is not guitar synth it is just my 3part harmony mouthing the words waa,waa,waa...hehehe

I have MANY more real vocal stuff most of them with 4,5 part harmony in them.
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PostSubject: Re: The "shred is dead" mentality and the "no feeling" protester.    Sun Aug 29, 2010 7:16 pm

i'm down with the half baked retarded! alien
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PostSubject: Re: The "shred is dead" mentality and the "no feeling" protester.    Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:46 am

well I have been known to record silly things before Smile

actually the first one was to show TEK that I don't use vibrato to harmonize with myself because it is harder than holding straight notes SmileSmile
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