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Kugelspot

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PostSubject: D-Tuners   Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:25 pm

I have a Hipshot D-Tuner on my Spector. Whenever I use it, it makes all the other strings sharp. I know this is an inherent problem in most trem systems, but I was wondering if there was anything I could do about it. I'd really hate to see it go to waste. The only thing I've figured out so far is to make the D-tuner drop the E string a little sharp of D, which makes the other strings go a bit less out of tune. Kahler make a "D Stop" to fix the problem, but it sounds like those are only for the guitar trems. Are there any other ways to fix this?
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PostSubject: Re: D-Tuners   Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:05 am

Not that I know of. Since you're changing the tension, it all settles differently...it's just how it works, unfortunately.
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PostSubject: Re: D-Tuners   Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:29 am

thats what I was afraid of
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Darkstrike



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PostSubject: Re: D-Tuners   Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:40 am

The only way to make the d-tuner work right is to permanently, or semi-permanently stop the trem from raising in pitch.


This is one of the reasons I'm still interested in modded Bigsbys, and Hipshot trems(I believe a Hipshot one could work with a D-tuner, if you use some tremsetters).
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PostSubject: Re: D-Tuners   Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:47 am

I'm interested in Bigsbys because I'd love to get a Gretch or something witn one on it! haha
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PostSubject: Re: D-Tuners   Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:48 am

I'm interested in Bigsbys because I'd love to get a Gretch or Guild with one on it! haha
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PostSubject: Re: D-Tuners   Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:13 pm

you young whipper-snappers who WON'T tune to DGCF as the standard --oyVEY!!! scratch

screw that detuner Sleep

( and DON'T tell me that you cannot play the E on the 2nd fret because it is to difficult to transpose either ya lazy bums )

try it for a week before you tell me to "take my alternative tunings and shove them", you will find it is just as easy as EADG PLUS you still end up with the open D Smile
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Darkstrike



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PostSubject: Re: D-Tuners   Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:37 pm

amimbari wrote:
you young whipper-snappers who WON'T tune to DGCF as the standard --oyVEY!!! scratch

screw that detuner Sleep

( and DON'T tell me that you cannot play the E on the 2nd fret because it is to difficult to transpose either ya lazy bums )

try it for a week before you tell me to "take my alternative tunings and shove them", you will find it is just as easy as EADG PLUS you still end up with the open D Smile

Oh snap!


Why didn't I think of that before!?!



Oh wait, I did, I have three basses in D standard...


Some of us don't want the lowered tension, and higher action of low tuning, in my case, not all the time anyway.

Not to mention I play flat, which means I'd have to tune to Db Gb Cb Fb, down that low I'd have to be special ordering strings, to get anywhere near the tension I like.
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Kugelspot

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PostSubject: Re: D-Tuners   Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:53 pm

amimbari wrote:
you young whipper-snappers who WON'T tune to DGCF as the standard --oyVEY!!! scratch

screw that detuner Sleep

( and DON'T tell me that you cannot play the E on the 2nd fret because it is to difficult to transpose either ya lazy bums )

try it for a week before you tell me to "take my alternative tunings and shove them", you will find it is just as easy as EADG PLUS you still end up with the open D Smile

Actually, most of my band's original stuff is in D standard. It just that a lot of covers we do happen to be in drop D (even though we're really not into nu metal or metalcore or anything scratch ).

Plus drop tunings are fun sometimes. Theres a lot of cool open string stuff you can do with it, like on Moby Dick by Led Zeppelin.

And why play in D standard when you can play in drop C Razz ?
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PostSubject: Re: D-Tuners   Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:17 pm

I'm guessing KS that the Spector in question has both a Hipshot Detuner as well as a Kahler trem, correct? This is an issue which has been spoken of before, and I'm afraid that the vast majority of players attempting to balance both devices run into the exact same problem as you do. What is happening is that the Kahler is literally balancing tension between the strings and the springs. By using the Hipshot, you are slackening the tension on the string side of the equation, and the Kahler's springs now want to pull on the cam that much harder, which pulls your other three strings sharp.

It's the same nightmare that I've experienced when breaking a string onstage. SNAP! There goes the E string, and the A-D-G strings all jump up about a half-step.

This is also why I don't juggle detuning my E string down to a D, since the other three strings all go sharp.

Bro, I feel your pain, and I wish I had a good answer for you. The only thing I can think of is to employ the stop-screw located in the back of the cam, assuming that your Kahler even has this feature, as Kahler stopped putting them in a while ago. Still, they do try and use up old inventory, so you might have one. It's a small allan head screw that drops down from the cam plate to contact the bottom of the routing pocket. If you had it set so that your Kahler could only drop, it might solve the problem.

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Kugelspot

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PostSubject: Re: D-Tuners   Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:04 pm

Never mind then. If the only way to fix the problem is to make it drop only (and that might not even be an option), I'd rather keep it the way it is. With the way I've got it set now, it's in tune enough that you wouldn't really notice in a live setting, which is the whole point of a detuner anyway, to quickly and easily change from standard to drop D and back. It doesn't even go that far out of tune, about as much as when I tune by ear.
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PostSubject: Re: D-Tuners   Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:04 pm

ya DS tuning a reg E to c# does change the tension quite a lot and it forces you to play too differently to compensate and the strings get loose and buzz more so ok, I'll change my post:


maybe there is a good solution out there What a Face
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PostSubject: Re: D-Tuners   Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:33 pm

because of different reasons, the answer may be ..........

you need another bass.

i mean ... i can always use another bass or five.

i always bring 2 basses to practice, recording and gigs.

one reason is simply the sound options. i have the main 3 i use now with jazz single pickups and neck thru, the split p humbucker and the split p with the soapbar @ the bridge (with the kahler). all 3 of these basses have distinct sound. the current songs in our set utilize 2 of these basses' sound, the jazz and the kahlered dual humbucker basses. the other can be subbed in as a backup if necessary (or bring it with just cauze it looks like its getting lonely).

plus ... the backup is my, sitting in front of the tv and play the commercials, bass.

the other reason i bring 2 ... if i break a string. i hate stopping at practice and replacing a string. i just grab the other one and make it work thru the set or till break.

my bands guitarerer uses 2 guitars simply for the reason so that he doesnt have to keep detuning and tuning. he uses 2 sg's and one of those ibanezers for low drop tunings. the sg's sound exactly the same ... cuz they are. i cant tell em apart. its just outta conveinence.

now ... if you had 2 basses with kahlers, you could set each one up for each tuning.

unless, flipping the hipshot from e to d or vise versa during a song is what your objective is ... then i dont have any answers.
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PostSubject: Re: D-Tuners   Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:22 pm

amimbari wrote:
you young whipper-snappers who WON'T tune to DGCF as the standard --oyVEY!!! scratch

screw that detuner Sleep

( and DON'T tell me that you cannot play the E on the 2nd fret because it is to difficult to transpose either ya lazy bums )

try it for a week before you tell me to "take my alternative tunings and shove them", you will find it is just as easy as EADG PLUS you still end up with the open D Smile

The only reason why I don't use drop tunings is not because I'm lost, but just because I'm uncomfortable doing those long leaps in the scale. Why work that hard to do something that simple? For me, the benefit doesn't outweigh the cost, so I just stick with E 'cos it's so efficient when using one finger per fret.

And KS--unless it's really necessary to have both of those features on one bass, I'd say sell the d-tuner or put it on another bass so that you can have both things, but on instruments where they work realistically.


Interesting you mention a "watching TV and blindly playing" bass...right now, that's my Jackson. It's so much fun with fresh rounds and I play it all the time because it's so well made.


Last edited by Chowderboots on Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: D-Tuners   Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:38 pm

I don't know what you could do to make the Kahler and the D-tuner play nice together. I have a D-tuner on my Kahlered bass and it seems to effect the tuning very minimally. Maybe it's your string gages; what sizes are you using? I'm using a custom light set that I bought from d'addario in single strings specifically to get more range out of the Kahler.

As far as the argument is concerned I used to think that D-tuners were stupid and that you should just get a five string or retune your whole bass to get the extra notes. Then I started learning songs in which drop D is the most efficient answer to the tuning problem and began to realize that I don't use notes below D all that much. I eventually tired of retuning my bass, so I bought one. Now it's hard to imagine a bass without one; I think all my future four string basses will have one!
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PostSubject: Re: D-Tuners   Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:22 am

Yvarg wrote:
Maybe it's your string gages; what sizes are you using? I'm using a custom light set that I bought from d'addario in single strings specifically to get more range out of the Kahler.

.105-.45. T make it worse, they're Optima Golds, which are pretty stiff. So I'm practiaclly using the exact opposite.

And like I said, its not that big a problem.
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PostSubject: Re: D-Tuners   Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:56 pm

you all may think I'm against all this stuff, which I am not. I just hate drop anything when you can use one 4 stringer to do DGCF or BEAD...

however if you are comfortable remembering that drop D is 2 frets off only on the E string...awesome Smile

as far as a 5-6stringer, sure why not.

I totally understand that many peoples music REQUIRE D or B and if I had to play sets worth of music in B, I would also use a 5'er.
If my setlists consisted of music in D, I would still use DGCF, and for songs with standard, I would transpose. To me, and me only -- it makes it WAY easier than remembering a 2 fret difference on the E string.

NOW, if you have a bass that you cannot use in DGCF, thanks to the tension/buzz/playability, ( and I do also..no WAY it will work in DGCF ) then absolutely no question you would need a d-tuner as the other strings would be normal and hold the neck in it's proper place, and if I only owned 1,2 basses I would already have one . geek
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PostSubject: Re: D-Tuners   Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:07 pm

Kugelspot wrote:
Yvarg wrote:
Maybe it's your string gages; what sizes are you using? I'm using a custom light set that I bought from d'addario in single strings specifically to get more range out of the Kahler.

.105-.45. T make it worse, they're Optima Golds, which are pretty stiff. So I'm practiaclly using the exact opposite.

And like I said, its not that big a problem.

Wow how do the Optimas sound?
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Darkstrike



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PostSubject: Re: D-Tuners   Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:12 pm

Kugelspot wrote:
Yvarg wrote:
Maybe it's your string gages; what sizes are you using? I'm using a custom light set that I bought from d'addario in single strings specifically to get more range out of the Kahler.

.105-.45. T make it worse, they're Optima Golds, which are pretty stiff. So I'm practiaclly using the exact opposite.

And like I said, its not that big a problem.

My Optimas are 100-40, and are stiffer than most 105s.

I can imagine what you're going through.
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Kugelspot

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PostSubject: Re: D-Tuners   Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:55 pm

Where'd you get a 100-40 set? I thought they only made 100-45
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PostSubject: Re: D-Tuners   Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:46 pm

You may be right, I'm certain the E is 100, and I thought the G was 40, but I can't find them now, on the site I bought them from, it was 14 months ago! Laughing

I know for sure, they do make a 40 G string, but it now seems o only come on lighter sets.
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PostSubject: Re: D-Tuners   Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:02 pm

Darkstrike wrote:
You may be right, I'm certain the E is 100, and I thought the G was 40, but I can't find them now, on the site I bought them from, it was 14 months ago! Laughing

I know for sure, they do make a 40 G string, but it now seems o only come on lighter sets.

Ya, I don't understand why they always make the G stirng heavier than the other 3. It doesn't make much sense.

Edit: JESUS CHRIST 14 MONTHS!?!?! How are they holding up?
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PostSubject: Re: D-Tuners   Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:24 pm

Suprisingly well, they don't sound fresh, by any means, but they're far from dead, harmonics ring beautifully, low notes growl, chords sound full, and warm,but not muddy. In other words, just right! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: D-Tuners   Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:28 pm

Heh the strings on my Kelly are as dead as a doornail after two weeks.
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