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madmike

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PostSubject: "your fired!"   Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:25 am

fender has been having a tuff time lately .....

http://reverb.com/blog/john-mayer-announces-split-with-fender

http://www.msretailer.com/msr/fired-fender/

it seems like the john mayer thing didnt end well. i found no info about what was said or what happened but john just doesnt seem happy about it in the least. another forum we started talking about who will have an endorsement deal with john next.

m&s retailer seems like they are just tired of dealing with big business. fender is just trying to change with the times and remain profitable but its at the expense of other businesses.

fender has been resting on its vintage laurels for years. i dont understand the die hard commitment some players have with that brand. i understand the vintage market (a 74 jazz bass would be nice) and just liking it but, fender doesnt produce a superior instrument at a decent price. ill take a comprable priced washburn or yamaha over a mex p bass any day. their superior instrument (usa deluxe) is waaaay to expensive for what it is and furreal ... its kinda ordinary.

i like it that this smaller company isnt liking how fender is conducting business with them so they are taking a chance and cutting out (like cancer) a huge section of their market (according to trends) and offering more products from smaller producers. there are more and more smaller producers making better and better instruments at a better price every day. fender were the innovators, but i dont think they are the standard anymore.

this is all a market that is changing with the times. fender isnt a bad product ... ive owned them ... but these big companies doing business like they are the end all be all ... i think the trend in the market is going to change.

my instruments and gear today? washburn, carvin, peavey and samic. i have one epi and im starting to feel the same way about gibson.
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Alexander

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PostSubject: Re: "your fired!"   Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:35 am

I'm not a diehard Fender player, but they've got some instruments I like for sure.
My Tony Franklin Fender is one of my best sounding and playing basses. Few of their basses in the last few years I thought sounded good, Blacktop, Roadworn (not of fan of fake relicing, but it played and sounded good) and I picked up a Fretless Squire a month or so ago that really surprised me.
I can't really envision Fender not being the big fish in the pond, there is always going to be people willing to walk into guitar stores and buy over priced American Fenders. Still, they do make some awesome instruments. I wouldn't mind getting a vintage Fretless P bass someday down the line. I also had a Fretless 90s Jazz Bass that is the only instrument i regretted selling.
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madmike

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PostSubject: Re: "your fired!"   Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:08 am

well here is another level of my lack of understanding with the fender trend.

i participate on guitar building forums. its in the scope from refinishing and buying kits to guys who cut bodies, make necks and wind their own pickups. having the knowledge and ability to do so, some of these guys objective is to match fenders exactly. i mean like, giving each other a hard time because a certian part or color isnt "correct". theres usually some mouth breathing involved.

just go buy it. vintage correctness build costs the same or more at times. i understand the value of building something but it gets a little crazy at times.

my objective for building is to build something different, something that is impossible to get or something i couldnt afford otherwise. i have built fender type instruments because its a sound design and parts are available but they are built to include something fender doesnt offer (like a trem).

the guitar and bass market is real funny.
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PostSubject: Re: "your fired!"   Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:22 pm

I will admit to having had an obsession with original Fenders for many years, which translated over into an automatic expectation that they would be capable of producing similar quality in modern times. This has changed drastically over the years.

Remember the whole "pre CBS" buzz? Before they went to almost full automation? Yes, I was struck by the stories of instruments that were mostly made by hand, and used the simplest of machines. Sure, I've held a few vintage Precision and Jazz basses before. From a nostalgic standpoint, they are cool.

Then, in 1988, I got wind of the fact that the Japanese Fenders were being turned on the original lathes that Leo Fender had in his original shop, which lent many to the belief that a Japanese Fender was closer to an original/vintage than the American versions.

Nowadays, I have been completely blinded and spoiled by the quality and craftsmanship of my Twin basses Romulus and Remus. It was my buddy/guitarist Andy Beech, the builder of my aforementioned Twins, who managed to show me the differences between a machined Fender (or any other major brand) and a handmade work of art: D'Haitre Guitars

Sure. If I walk into our local music store, and I see a shiny $1,200 Jazz hanging on the hook, I'll pull it down, and give it a whirl. What becomes almost instantly apparent is that the bass is only worth about one tenth of the price. Almost every single "name" brand bass I try in stores now feels like toys to me. If I had the money, I wouldn't mind having a couple Precisions and/or Jazz basses in the collection, but only for nostalgic purposes. To have them to play them live? Absolutely not.

Now, Andy is quick to point out that for many, even the lowest rung of Fenders (think a base model Squire) is more than suitable for what many players want, and the fact is that they cost next to nothing. It is a difficult market to get players to shell out the money for a top-end handcrafted instrument. My basses both cost $3K each. Were they worth it? Every single penny. Again, not that everyone wants to, or even can, afford that much. I get that, and so does Andy. For me, I was lucky enough to be able to have my dream basses built exactly to my specs for what I do, and they perform flawlessly. I will never buy anything off the rack with the intent of playing it either live, or in a studio.

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madmike

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PostSubject: Re: "your fired!"   Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:19 am

there is the differences between handmade and mass produced instruments and i agree ... most players dont need a $3k handmade instrument. its ego stuff ... and thats cool. its nice to have a nice instrument.

your comment eric about off the rack instruments feeling like a toy. learning how to correctly do a refinish over the last few years, im suprised what mass producers consider an acceptable finish and how different an instrument plays once a factory finish is removed and refinished with some tlc.

fender is guilty. they dunk their bodies in that vinyl plastic sealer crap that only comes off with a heat gun and then top it off with a poly finish ... more plastic. this is what makes a lot of mass produced instruments play like a toy.

not all. yamaha does a great job with their poly nowadays. they didnt always.

if you take a $200 squire and get that stuff offa there and refinish with shellac sealer and nitro lacquer, it will play and feel like a much higher quality instrument.

imagine what your two basses would feel and play like with a coating of plastic on them. kinda defeats the purpose right? its a shame because these poly finishes are used because they are faster and cheaper to produce.
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Alexander

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PostSubject: Re: "your fired!"   Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:19 pm

One thing I really disliked when I had my Fender Geddy Lee was that poly finish.
I dunno its like... you could feel how thick the finish was or something haha.
Finish on my Fretless isn't like that, thankfully.

Yeah my Yamahas finishes are good, its not super thick and gross feeling.
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madmike

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PostSubject: Re: "your fired!"   Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:44 pm

i dont think its so much the poly finish espically if its done right (thin). it looks nice and is tuff as nails. doesnt have the same characteristics as a lacquer finish tho and doesnt help when .......

fullerplast. thats the stuff fender uses for sealer. they put it on so thick. the only sensible way to get it off the body is tortching it with a heat gun. omg it smells horrible!

ever wonder about the demand for vintage fender basses. this is why. no fullerplast on the older ones. fender started using fullerplast in the late 80's or early 90's.

and i dont think all of them get fullerplast like bursts and natural finishes or american deluxes. i never stripped one so idk. i got that question in on another forum. somebody will answer it.
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